Those nights at Turfway are packed.

This is pretty laughable. All but three tracks still use chartcallers to get their data; most of the Cali tracks, and the Meadowlands, have stopped showing full headon replays, and tracks like Pimlico don't have enough zoon lens cameras to go around -- NYRA had this 'problem' until recently, as well. The 'game' or, more precisely, those controlling it, could really give a **** about catching up with the times.

YET, the game is a lot better of than it was before for those playing it. More tracks means more options. And, the last thing that's making a comeback is gamblers going back to the track to bet. The interesting thing is that I could care less what happens to AQU or BEL, or even SAR. It's nice not being held hostage by my 'local' track(s). Plenty of other places to play. And, the degenerate arm pullers could hike it over to Jersey or start sniffing glue (assuming they aren't already).

Other than that ... they are without question bad for the game.

You forgot about hand-timing turf races ... sorta accurately :zz:

Put me in this camp since I'm already there. I'm sure it's not a popular opinion, but I KNOW slots have not worked at many tracks where it was thought they would.

NYRA seems to be making a pretty serious effort to "catch up with the times" in my opinion.

Because of the way things started right after the Derby and how awkward he was initially. And nearly everyone who has dealt with him since has been surprised at the kind of guy he turned out to be. I called Joel Marr (Pepper's Pride) in New Mexico on the Monday after Derby to ask him about Woolley. Marr is a friend of his, and he said that Woolley would be hard to get to know, but that once he warmed up to people he was very easy to get along with and a really good guy. And he was right.

The gambling genie is out of the bottle Frederich, and it's not my problem to put it back. Because the alternative gaming in lesser jurisdictions already exists and is syphoning horses from the major ovals, there needs to be some catch up played. I don't disagree with you on the dates concept and hard long term solutions, but better to apply the band-aid now and cure the disease after.

In NY, Albany's feet-dragging and malfeasance, and the conspiracy with the Lottery Division to foist the franchise away from the Association, has cost you and me and the rest of the taxpayers of the state hundreds of millions over the past 6-7 years. In addition, it has put NY in the same potential 'jackpot' that Maryland and Illinois found itself, and Kentucky is finding itself.

Once everyone gets slots, the gig is up for those who have them and any advantages they had go away. It keeps more people in the racing (employees and horses that is), but the playing field will be more leveled.

I can't fault any jurisdiction for pursuing the slots at their own place, and any help you can get - so be it. Slots are not a savior, but a temporary inflation adjustment that has been long missed in many places.

Slots are welfare for horse racing.

That being said, I fully supported the initiative to get them in PA - even wrote my undergrad senior thesis on the feasibility of slot machines at PA racetracks (nice way to get to do "research" at the track while in college).

Once everyone gets some, those who had it from the beginning start craving more.

The slots era in racing should be viewed as such...

Let's find a way to help insert more money into the sport and that will get the state government to go along with it...ok, great...we've put ourselves on the IV-drip of slots money. Now - we SHOULD be going out and doing everything we can to improve racing for the long-term (find ways to increase wagering, uniform guidelines, improved marketing, making the track a great place to be, increasing fans, etc).

Slots are stimulus packages for the sport...once everyone has them, the stimulus won't feel like one any longer. Now is the time to innovate and change...

First of all the millions lost in tax revenue needs to be viewed for what it might mean. I am sure you will agree that it will cost the state 10's of millions in relief for people who simply get wiped out by the new toy. So you need to find the delta (net dollars) that the crimnal machines actually yield to the state.

It really doesn't matter slots don't seem to be in Aqueducts future any time remotely soon so its a ridiculious conversation. In NY NYRA seems to have a reasonable grasp of wants going on. I would still like to see racing only 4 days a week Dec thru April as there just arent enough horseman or horses in town. I will conceed that winter racing this year in NY was OK until March when the Sheat hit the fan. I have no clue wants going on in Ca. but that circut seems doomed.

The gambling issue is a seperate philosophical debate.. But if NY is paying relief dollars to addicts, shouldn't they at least be addicts that are playing in NY and not Connecticut or Pennsylvania?

Government aren't suppose to hurt people. You are going to be breeding a new gambling. One that takes there pay check or someone elses in the worst case to a local spot to shoot it up. Slots can't have ANY long term benefit for the game. Racing can do fine with out it. Just less racing.. If the business of NY racing expands on a suspect foundation it will do a lot more harm then if it grows organically and or contracts properly. When the people leave the slots, because they are wiped out maybe the state will start selling herion at Aqueduct for money..


You don't make it worse for people because you want your slice of the pie. You aren't talking about wealthy people going to Atlantis and losing 20k on the Black jack table. You are inviting seniors and hard working people to there demise and the argument that they are going to drive 130 miles to do it anyway is VERY suspious for all but a minority of the possible players.

If the OTB's paid there fair share, no slots needed. Slots are a negative for horseracing. I am sure the slot people would be glad to put a hotel in the infield, and an oval parking lot.

has anyone taken a look at what the slots at Yonkers have done for Yonkers Raceway - place is packed , purses are up , if it works there , why wouldn't it work at the Big A or Belmont?

People are going to go out and gamble on the 1 arm bandits whether you like it or not , why not let it help the industry rather than letting someone else (ac , foxwoods , yonkers)get it.

Freddy the buses are leaving everyday to AC with seniors and others , they get a free luch and some comps on chips .....yonkers has grabbed some of that busniness from westchester and the bronx , big a has the opportunity to grab those taking the daily bus rides from brooklyn , queens and nassau county

Democrat Malcolm Smith was voted out as NYS Senate leader this Monday . In a strange turn of events, Smith's "Reverand" turned up as one of the principles in a new group that bid on the Aqueduct racino . It seems these 2 opportunists are out of the picture now. Which is a good thing .

And FLakes has a racino for those interested http://www.fingerlakesracetrack.com/Default.aspx

As does Tioga Downs the harness track in upstate http://www.tiogadowns.com/ ...fyi NYC billionaire investor and resident Jeff Gural , the owner, is part of a group bidding on the Aq racino.

I'd like to add that my republican upstate NY state senator Tom Libous, the district where Tioga Downs does business, played a pivotal role in the change in power in the NYS Senate . He is also on the NYS Racing and Wagering Board .

http://www.tiogadowns.com/

My response to the tbred times article is that I disagree with it . NY government has been paralyzed with Smith as Senate leader . Chaos has reigned and no business was getting done . If some groups want to pull out of the bidding process they may just be expediting their failure .

With the new coalition leadership in the Senate the outlook for a responsible, qualified group to run the Aq casino has been enhanced, imo . As well as NY state's future in general .

http://pressconnects.com/article/200...2w4caU5a6F0%3D
""We're going to be able to govern," said Sen. Thomas Libous, R-Binghamton, who helped lead the coup on the Senate floor Monday. "We're going to be able to do more reform."

Said Vincent Leibell, R-Patterson, Putnam County: "This is genuine reform. The Senate will be administered in a non-partisan fashion."

"Rochester-area billionaire Tom Golisano helped orchestrate the leadership change...Golisano said his Responsible New York political action committee will back candidates who support reform."

And from Albany Times Union http://www.timesunion.com/AspStories...storyID=808527
Republicans strut their stuff.

The overthrow of Smith on youtube...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XM_S44n-sYU
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dg3S1...eature=related

I seems to me, based on this whole dialogue, that a serious campaign to convert a majority of these slot players into horseplayers could be the permanent solution.

It will never happen. Sure you would get some occasional slot players playing the ponies. But to expect the hard core slot players to convert over to horses all together is unrealistic.

Im just thinking, if we could get their money into our pools, then we could take their money instead of the government taking their money.:D