or mullins, who hit ungodly figures, got caught 'shaking, ran out of the DET barn because of it...and go figure, his % went in the toilet that month.

what does the rest of the field have to do with one horse going from 81 to 105 ?

how many times has dutrow runners tested postive , you would have people on here believe that it has been thousands of times?

do you even know the number?

approx 462 times.

Do you really think Mine that Bird was juiced? Or if he was really juiced he was the only horse in that race on the juice?

I think the slop was the main reason for his beyer jump.. and the fact he saved as much ground as possible must have helped.

Here's some Beyer jumpup numbers the rest of the Derby field have already produced in their careers.

Good young horses have a jump up. Can they hold it, repeat it, is it their new real level or was it too much and they are out, injured?

Mind That Bird, coming in with a good pattern, was fortunate enough to have his jumpup in the Derby.

Flying Private - 44-71 + 27
Hot Stuff - 71 - 96 +25
Mind That Bird - 80 - 105 + 25
I Want Revenge - 92-113 + 23
Dunkirk - 77 - 98 + 21
Summer Bird - 78 - 99 + 21
Hold Me Back - 77-97 + 20
Fresian Fire - 77 - 94 + 17
West Side Bernie - 84 - 101 + 17
Atomic Rain - 82 - 95 + 13

You are kidding, right? It's been every since 2000 that he's had at least one fine or suspension for an overage.

is that a fact?

i'm am not saying he was juiced , but , no one here has shown me proof that TOPF was jucied the day of his big jump either

scott - show me the suspensions/fines all of them every year is there a site i can look at?

actually I just typed a random number


there is no accountability on the internet..


but what about my other questions?

If Bird was on drugs do you really think he was the only horse in the race on drugs?

and dont you think the mud had more to do with the moveup?

If he was drugged in this race I'm sure he was drugged in his other races... and he still ran slow.

Its not like he was just claimed and moved up right away...

I don't have a full list but there is a lot of info in this article:

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/colum...sportCat=horse

Dutrow's ARCI rap sheet contains 72 entries, including fines and suspensions in Maryland, California, New York, Florida, Delaware and New Jersey.
Several of those are for his own personal conduct; many involve marijuana. Others include: an alleged attempt to pass forged checks in Maryland; an attempt to provide a false urine sample "by means of an apparatus concealed on his person"; and a failure to report on a New York license application a 1991 criminal conviction in Nevada.

And he's been fined or suspended at least once every year since 2000 for doping issues. In 2000, a barn search in New York produced "an injectible vitamin which is forbidden." In '01, a horse had excessive Lasix -- an anti-bleeding medication -- in its system. In '02, Dutrow "failed to follow Lasix procedures." In '03, a horse tested positive for Mepivacaine. From '04 through an '08 fine in Florida, there were citations regarding Lasix, Clenbuterol, Phenylbutazone and Oxyphenbutazone.

He served a 60-day suspension in 2005 after two of his horses tested positive for banned substances and for a claiming violation. Then, in 2007, he served an additional 14-day suspension and was fined $25,000 for violating conditions of his suspension by having contact with his stable.

scott we live in america , no one here has show me any proof the TOFP was juiced that day when he jumped 20+ points , yet DRF felt compelled to write a story without having any facts about the horse in question. Again can you tell me TOFP was jucied when he won in florida that day and jumped 20+ beyer points?

There is a pretty good indication that Dutrow is doing something different with the horse than the previous trainer was and it isn't training related as the form reversal occurred way too quick for that to be the case.

Hes claimed in the past, a big reason for all his success is the dental work he does on his new horses :D

I know I feel better when I come back from getting my teeth cleaned but I dont think my mile time is all that much better.

so are you telling me TOFP was juiced in the race in question in florida?

that is the only explanation as to why he jumped 20+ points that day?

I think when you consider Dutrow's past records with these cases the evidence points to the horse being juiced.

The horse that was 3rd beaten 7.5 lengths in This One's For Phil's high Beyer dirt race ... was the horse who blew Mine That Bird away with a very wide sweep move on the far turn enroute to a Sunland Derby victory in his only other career dirt start.

again a past infraction is a past infraction, what proof do you have or does anyone on the board have the he was juiced that day? i would like to see it

The thing about Mine the Bird that is different than the Cali poly horses is that Mine the Bird did have previous dirt form; it just wasn't particularly good.

I'm going to say this just for you Marty

nobody has proof... it is all theory. u happy now?