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-   -   Horse of the Year? (http://www.derbytrail.com/forums/showthread.php?t=26861)

dellinger63 12-23-2008 08:34 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stickhorse
Horse of the Year is an award for North American horses for North American efforts. Curlin people, you should know better, don't mention the Dubai World Cup. If you want to throw that race in the mix then you will lose your argument for sure. The stage widens and we have to consider Zarkava.

Her victory in the Prix de l’Arc de Triomphe (Fr-I) was over a better field than Curlin faced in his Dubai race. She, like Zenyatta, was undefeated but she, unlike Zenyatta, did beat the boys.

Horse of the Year should go to a “Z” horse. Zarkava or Zenyatta
I agree whole heartedly and because of Zenyatta's Arc she wins Curlin lost his chance at Santa Anita. IMO

The Indomitable DrugS 12-23-2008 08:36 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dellinger63
because of Zenyatta's Arc she wins Curlin lost his chance at Santa Anita. IMO
huh?

The Bid 12-23-2008 08:47 AM
They will confuse you on here. We need to read between the lines. Hes obviously saying Big Brown should be horse of the year

dellinger63 12-23-2008 08:49 AM
sorry got the Z's azz backwards should have said the Aga Khan's....:zz:

dellinger63 12-23-2008 08:50 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dellinger63
sorry got the Z's azz backwards should have said the Aga Khan's....:zz:
His Highness

parsixfarms 12-23-2008 08:53 AM
Connections notwithstanding, IMO, Curlin should win the HOY award based on the races in which he competed, and won (save for two on non-dirt surfaces).

That being said, I don't understand those who question the caliber of the competition that Zenyatta, an outstanding filly, beat. The number of legitimate Grade I fillies (Ginger Punch, Hystericalady, Music Note, Cocoa Beach) defeated by Zenyatta - in more races - during her campaign far outweighs the number of legitimate Grade I dirt horses who Curlin defeated (perhaps none) during his.

GBBob 12-23-2008 08:56 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by parsixfarms
Connections notwithstanding, IMO, Curlin should win the HOY award based on the races in which he competed, and won (save for two on non-dirt surfaces).

That being said, I don't understand those who question the caliber of the competition that Zenyatta, an outstanding filly, beat. The number of legitimate Grade I fillies (Ginger Punch, Hystericalady, Music Note, Cocoa Beach) defeated by Zenyatta - in more races - during her campaign far outweighs the number of legitimate Grade I dirt horses who Curlin defeated (perhaps none) during his.
So you think all the fillies you reference would have consistantly beat, or maybe even one time, beat Curlin or those he ran against?

my miss storm cat 12-23-2008 09:00 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cardus
I have never had a fan's rooting interest in Curlin, but to give the Horse-of-the-Year award to a horse other than he who won the Dubai World Cup, Jockey Club Gold Cup, Woodward Stakes, and the Steven Foster Handicap in one racing season, I'd have to see more than what Zenyatta provided.
Agree.

Too bad Zenyatta didn't run against the boys...

parsixfarms 12-23-2008 10:12 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by GBBob
So you think all the fillies you reference would have consistantly beat, or maybe even one time, beat Curlin or those he ran against?
I'm not saying that they would have Curlin. However, I don't think it's that much of stretch to imagine some of these fillies defeating the likes of Barcola, Past the Point or Wanderin Boy on dirt.

I think the real point that I was trying to make is that Zenyatta is the best of a pretty strong (relatively speaking) group of fillies and mares, while Curlin (not his fault) was the best of a pretty weak group of older males. In that context, I have a hard time knocking the competition that Zenyatta faced.

parsixfarms 12-23-2008 10:55 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cardus
You get Ginger Punch, because Zenyatta beat her on dirt. However, Zenyatta beat Hystericalady on synthetic (twice), a surface on which she never ran as well as she ran on dirt. She beat Music Note and Cocoa Beach on synthetic as well ( a surface over which neither had previously competed), so I wouldn't tout those horses in Zenyatta's "quality of the horses she has beaten compared to Curlin" column.
I'll accept the point that Hystericalady is not the same filly on synthetic, but Cocoa Beach and Music Note both ran their respective races in the BC, and Zenyatta ran over them. They are both seriously good fillies, and they certainly compare favorably in their divisions to the horses that Curlin beat in the Foster, Woodward, and JC Gold Cup.

King Glorious 12-23-2008 11:15 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stickhorse
Horse of the Year is an award for North American horses for North American efforts. Curlin people, you should know better, don't mention the Dubai World Cup. If you want to throw that race in the mix then you will lose your argument for sure. The stage widens and we have to consider Zarkava.
Her victory in the Prix de l’Arc de Triomphe (Fr-I) was over a better field than Curlin faced in his Dubai race. She, like Zenyatta, was undefeated but she, unlike Zenyatta, did beat the boys.

Horse of the Year should go to a “Z” horse. Zarkava or Zenyatta
This statement is absolutely, 100% incorrect. You can throw the Dubai World Cup into the mix because it's a race on the record of a horse that is eligible for the title. Zarkava never raced in North America so therefore she is ineligible and thus, her results aren't even to be considered.

ateamstupid 12-23-2008 11:19 AM
I'd give the slight nod to Curlin, but wouldn't be outraged if Zenyatta won.

smuthg 12-23-2008 11:26 AM
good article on DRF by Steve Davidowitz. http://www.drf.com/drfNewsArticle.do?NID=100680


I think Commentator's best two races were better than any other horse/race this year but his Clark flop destroys any case that could be made for him and Curlin looked like Michael Jordan in his Wizard's uniform this year, something just wasn't right... So if I had a vote I would go with Zenyatta.

I found it very interesting that Davidowitz went with Eight Belles in the 3YO filly divisions without much discussion. Does Goldikova get a look in this division?

miraja2 12-23-2008 11:46 AM
Nicanor or Hang Glide.

cowgirlintexas 12-23-2008 12:08 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by miraja2
Nicanor or Hang Glide.
Hopefully that will be in 2009 :)

sumitas 12-23-2008 12:31 PM
I favor Pepper's Pride as HOY .

hoovesupsideyourhead 12-23-2008 01:03 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by sumitas
I favor Pepper's Pride as HOY .
YES WE HAVE IT..THE FN CLAIMER WHO FACED NO BODY .NEVER VENTURED TO FACE BETTER GETS HORSE OF THE YEAR...HE MADE IT AROUND THE TRACK THATS IT..IF THATS THE DEAL THEN I THINK 'HANK' SHOULD WIN AT LEAST HE ESCORTED A FEW DERBY WINNERS TO THE GATE..:zz: :zz: :zz:

GBBob 12-23-2008 01:12 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by hoovesupsideyourhead
YES WE HAVE IT..THE FN CLAIMER WHO FACED NO BODY .NEVER VENTURED TO FACE BETTER GETS HORSE OF THE YEAR...HE MADE IT AROUND THE TRACK THATS IT..IF THATS THE DEAL THEN I THINK 'HANK' SHOULD WIN AT LEAST HE ESCORTED A FEW DERBY WINNERS TO THE GATE..:zz: :zz: :zz:
My 11 year old greyhound would keep up with Poopers Pride

Cannon Shell 12-23-2008 02:33 PM
I know there aint much going on but do we really have to discuss this again? Regardless of who wins the award the winner will go down among the weakest HOY's in recent time. Paging through a copy of Champions makes the horses argued about in the is thread seem pretty meek.


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