The surface was excellent. If the race would have been run at CHD Ravens Pass and Henry would have ran 1-2, right?

I dont know. How about at charlestown or belmont?

At Charlestown Raven would have been the nuts, hes a 4 turn specialist

LOL.

Curlin wouldnt have won there either...and its run on dirt.

Curlin would have won anywhere with a natural dirt surface

No way. 10f at ctown is three sharp turns and speed is king. Curlin would have been toast.

Wouldnt Ctown be 4 turns for a mile and a quarter? Where would they start that race

IN the chute

That is pure speculation. Outside of Curlin, who was the top notch Grade 1 dirt horse in North America?

So, if Curlin doesn't fire ( or his jockey moves too early and too wide) , how is it not plausible that two of Europe's top horses do fire big and run 1-2?

Didn't Sakhee run big on DIRT? Didn't Giant's Causeway run big on DIRT?

Had to be the surface.. whatever.

Right.

You think Tiago beats Curlin on the dirt? Tiago would be lucky to beat me on the dirt

didn't Tiago run very well on the dirt at Oaklawn?

I think you are placing Curlin way to high up on a pedestal.. He won his races this year over some very suspect "G1" horses.

How is it not possible that he was either moved to early and too wide and Tiago basically sucked up for third after a ground saving trip?

I just don't get your logic.

I have no idea how a horse who blew past the entire field, gained a length lead into the stretch, can use the "he didnt handle the surface".

Horses who dont handle the surface dont make that move.

How about he was not quite as good as he was 9-12 months ago, made a premature move on a tiring surface and then flattened out getting beat by horses with some quality to them.

Tiago is a 8 furling dirt horse who has decent enough class to hit the board against good horses at longer distances on both syn and dirt.

He was moved when he needed to be moved he didnt kick on like he does on the dirt. Thats very typical of a horse that cannot get over a surface, they do not finish their run.

I do not think Curlin is great, but I certainly do not think that field should have beaten him, nor would they have on a dirt track. That being said you are right about how hes looked this year and the crappy horses hea beaten. Merchant Marine whom he just beat looked like garbage on BC day at Belmont.

That Tiago finished third in the race was not beyond the realm of possibilities. He had run several figures (many Ragozin "3"s) that could put him on the board in this race.

The question is why did Curlin regress in this race? Was it solely the racing surface? Was it the effects of a long two years of racing, especially after a trip to Dubai and back? Was it a premature move by Albarado? None of us can say for sure. The fact is that this was by far the best field that Curlin faced all year, and he didn't get the job done.

Finally, while it is questionable that either Raven's Pass or Henrythenavigator would have contested the Classic had it been run over a conventional dirt track, their pedigrees (by Elusive Quality and Kingmambo) would have been far more suited to a conventional dirt track than the pedigrees of the Euros (by such sires as Galileo, Danehill, and Sadler's Wells) that flopped in the Classic in recent years. They were legitimate Grade I horses that ran well. If they were able to transfer their form to a dirt surface (like a Giant's Causeway), the result may have very well been the same.

....really, the 2 horses that blew by curlin were grade 1 quality well bred horses......some people just cant deal with the fact that since the d.w.c curlin hasnt been that special.

Hmmm, 10f at Charles Town...six furlong track, the chute is for 4.5f, well dang, I wonder how the hell they would run a mile and a quarter at that joint?

They'd have to start here in Roanoke.