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-   -   9/13 (MTH): $500k Monmouth S. (http://www.derbytrail.com/forums/showthread.php?t=25006)

RollerDoc 09-11-2008 08:39 PM
Any odds yet?

Is this race being televised?

Danzig 09-11-2008 08:58 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by RollerDoc
Any odds yet?

Is this race being televised?

tvg

King Glorious 09-11-2008 08:59 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by eajinabi
If they think that then its stupid. What is running on Turf going to give him unless they go for BC Turf. If they are eyeing the Classic then go for a poly type surface. Run him at turfway for Kentucky Cup. Turfway and SA are simmilar type surface as far as polytrack is concerned.
That's the point. No surface is going to prepare him for exactly what he's going to run on in the Classic. So, with the issues he has with his feet, they are looking for an easier surface to run on than dirt. Where have you heard that Turfway and SA are similar? As far as I know, they've never run a single race on this stuff so how can anyone know this?

hrfan 09-11-2008 09:08 PM
I will be wagering on Silver Tree in here... Win/PLace, just because i think Brown could run out of the top 3 here.

RollerDoc 09-11-2008 10:00 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ateamstupid
Can't wait for Silver Tree's old ass to dust Pig Brown.

I'm just curious, why do you make reference to the "Pig" remark with this horse? He has won 6 of 7 races that he entered? Clearly he has a more impressive resume than 99.9% of his competitors over the past several years. So what does that make those horses in your eyes? Pretty harsh and unfair I'd say.

Hickory Hill Hoff 09-11-2008 10:19 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaHoss9698
Unfair is touting a horse like Big Brown as some sort of superstar when you have admitted that you have no knowledge of the game prior to a few years ago. The game has changed for the worse and some remember when there were actually good horses, that didn't run by appointment. Look, his resume is impressive. Winning the Derby like he did was a super feat, but when you take a step back and put it into perspective, then you see it for what it was.
Very well put.

RollerDoc 09-11-2008 10:38 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaHoss9698
Unfair is touting a horse like Big Brown as some sort of superstar when you have admitted that you have no knowledge of the game prior to a few years ago. The game has changed for the worse and some remember when there were actually good horses, that didn't run by appointment. Look, his resume is impressive. Winning the Derby like he did was a super feat, but when you take a step back and put it into perspective, then you see it for what it was.
Probably last five years is the majority of my knowledge. But I have done some research of horses in the past. I am fascinated by Alydar (even though Affirmed beat him all those times).

Touting Big Brown as a superstar is a stretch but he has had a great year. I never put him in the same mix as some of the greatest horses. I just feel like many don't give this horse the credit he is deserving of based on his record.

blackthroatedwind 09-11-2008 10:42 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by RollerDoc

Touting Big Brown as a superstar is a stretch but he has had a great year. I never put him in the same mix as some of the greatest horses. I just feel like many don't give this horse the credit he is deserving of based on his record.

Actually he gets way too much credit based on his record as opposed to his actual on track performance.

He's a very good horse. There used to be plenty better than him every year.

RollerDoc 09-11-2008 10:47 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind
Actually he gets way too much credit based on his record as opposed to his actual on track performance.

He's a very good horse. There used to be plenty better than him every year.
You may be right but I always see the arguments on here about hypothetical match ups, and they always get poo pooed. So how can anyone say for sure that Big Brown would have gotten dusted by Smarty Jones or Afleet Alex etc.?

King Glorious 09-11-2008 11:00 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by RollerDoc
You may be right but I always see the arguments on here about hypothetical match ups, and they always get poo pooed. So how can anyone say for sure that Big Brown would have gotten dusted by Smarty Jones or Afleet Alex etc.?
Because we saw those horses run and we've seen Big Brown run. Not to belittle you at all but you have to have more than five years of perspective to really see these things in a historical context.

alysheba4 09-11-2008 11:07 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ateamstupid
Can't wait for Silver Tree's old ass to dust Pig Brown.
....come on....where is the n.y:{>: forBIG brown;)

RollerDoc 09-11-2008 11:12 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by King Glorious
Because we saw those horses run and we've seen Big Brown run. Not to belittle you at all but you have to have more than five years of perspective to really see these things in a historical context.
True but I don't really make historical comments. Only within my bandwidth. I'm sure I'll know more a year from now and a year after that, etc. We all have to start somewhere.

RollerDoc 09-11-2008 11:30 PM
SILVER TREE and DRUM MAJOR are cross-entered in the $250,000 President's Cup at Philadelphia Park, a much easier spot than having to face Big Brown.

Slewbopper 09-12-2008 04:07 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by King Glorious
I'm curious about the weights. The condition book says "older 124 lbs, 3yo's 120 lbs."

.
Looks like IEAH screwed up a bit when writing the conditions of the race, whatever they may be. Gaging from the weights, it looks like Brown got no concession because of his G1 wins, although not on the turf, while G2T winners got 3 pounds, and others got 5.

hrfan 09-12-2008 04:21 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by RollerDoc
SILVER TREE and DRUM MAJOR are cross-entered in the $250,000 President's Cup at Philadelphia Park, a much easier spot than having to face Big Brown.
why is facing Big Brown not easy ?

zippyneedsawin 09-12-2008 05:36 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Antitrust32
Thats not what I meant. Shakis and Proudinsky are going to the the two best horses he's run against after this race. It will able us to measure him up better.

I think his accomplishments are amazing.. thats why I'm picking him to win eventhough I wouldnt back that up with a dime.


Oh- and yes it is a new race, Monmouth created it specifically for Big Brown. I've seen Shakis run twice at Toga... he looked amazing both times! This should be a good race. I feel BB could be better on the grass than off (kinda like dutrow).
I don't like Shakis here, he seems to do his best running at the Spa.

Danzig 09-12-2008 06:19 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by RollerDoc
True but I don't really make historical comments. Only within my bandwidth. I'm sure I'll know more a year from now and a year after that, etc. We all have to start somewhere.
saying he's better than 99.9% of the competition the last few years is definitely a historical comment. since you have gotten much of a timeline to compare, it might be better to say you've enjoyed his year, that he's definitely the top 3 yo this year. but everyone knows that....

Danzig 09-12-2008 06:21 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by RollerDoc
SILVER TREE and DRUM MAJOR are cross-entered in the $250,000 President's Cup at Philadelphia Park, a much easier spot than having to face Big Brown.
i would also disagree with that. big brown hasn't raced on turf in a year, while these horses do all their running there. they're no slouches on the grass. i don't see where he'd scare off top older turf horses at all.


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