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-   -   Curlin didn't look invincible... (http://www.derbytrail.com/forums/showthread.php?t=24805)

Cannon Shell 08-31-2008 12:39 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by the_fat_man
I see that we're making assumptions again based on numbers without considering the race dynamics. They went, essentially, 1-2 around the track in fast fractions, there were ZERO moves in the race, and Curlin came from off the pace to run down the speed. Anyone who thinks this wasn't impressive really needs to get on a bike, get on the track, and try it out. Try chasing a fast pace and then running the leader down on your own. This might radically alter one's perception of trips.
Please spare me the bike riding crap. So now sitting 4th behind a rapid pace set by inferior horses on a seemingly fair track ISNT a good trip? So if they go too slow on the front we can blame a slow pace but if they go too fast we can blame a fast pace? He won because the 3 horse couldnt run the last eighth in 13.20.

Coach Pants 08-31-2008 12:43 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by the_fat_man
I see that we're making assumptions again based on numbers without considering the race dynamics. They went, essentially, 1-2 around the track in fast fractions, there were ZERO moves in the race, and Curlin came from off the pace to run down the speed. Anyone who thinks this wasn't impressive really needs to get on a bike, get on the track, and try it out. Try chasing a fast pace and then running the leader down on your own. This might radically alter one's perception of trips.
I recently participated in a 5k and was trying to close on a fast pace. Needless to say things didn't go according to plan...

Coach Pants 08-31-2008 01:16 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaHoss9698
Why is all of the s hit in the front? Shouldn't it be in the back?
I'm not very knowledgeable in bowel dynamics. Ask fatty.

pgardn 08-31-2008 01:28 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaHoss9698
Why is all of the s hit in the front? Shouldn't it be in the back?
Inside those pants are smaller pants to hold
parts in place. He squirts and it dribbles out where
his legs open up places for the sludge to leak.

He has plenty of stuff in the back also.


Fatman needs to try and run and get off the bike.
On a bike when you stop moving your legs you can still
move forward. Cant do that running.

Coach Pants 08-31-2008 01:43 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaHoss9698
I wonder what that guy ate.
Curlin's premium summer blend oats.

pgardn 08-31-2008 01:44 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaHoss9698
I wonder what that guy ate.
That appears to be sludge from energy bars.

DogsUp 08-31-2008 01:52 PM
I will take a win anyday. Good or bad to the eyeballs a win is a win. He might be short or getting off form, but there isn't anyone in the US that can beat him if everything is equal - of course a horse could get lucky and beat him at any given time. I think Curlins' A or A- race is better than any horse's in the US A+ race.

fpsoxfan 08-31-2008 02:00 PM
Just to address a few things on here:

Curlin: I thought the race was a little bit of a letdown in that I wanted to see
Curlin just blow these away. It wasn't visually impressive, but he did
what he needed to do to win a 500,000 Grade 1 Race. What's the
excuse for a few others in this race. A.P. Arrow has been a big
disappointment. Nice race by the place horse.

The Runner: Why would he keep going with that all over him? Is it
possible that's a case of a shart gone wild?

Cannon Shell 08-31-2008 02:04 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaHoss9698
Isn't the point that he won? You should know as well as anyone here that horses don't fire their best every single time. So he ran a subpar race and won the Woodward. Maybe he's tailing off. But he has never been an invincible horse. He's just really good and since there are only a handful (maybe) of really good horses in training we expect them to show it everytime. And while I don't agree necessarily agree with Lance Armstrong's take, Curlin's trip was a bit trickier than you are suggesting.
Sure he won but to describe his trip as a tough one is hardly realistic. He was floated wide in the first turn but had clear sailing after that. He did not finish very strong and certainly this effort, though winning, was not up to par though the Beyer numbers will lead you to believe that it was typical. And if they are going to run this horse six times this year then I do expect him to be up to par everytime.

dalakhani 08-31-2008 02:07 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cannon Shell
Sure he won but to describe his trip as a tough one is hardly realistic. He was floated wide in the first turn but had clear sailing after that. He did not finish very strong and certainly this effort, though winning, was not up to par though the Beyer numbers will lead you to believe that it was typical. And if they are going to run this horse six times this year then I do expect him to be up to par everytime.
Chuck-

Is it fair to say that he didnt finish strong because he had to start his run much earlier than he would have liked thus taking a little starch out in the last furlong?

Cannon Shell 08-31-2008 02:16 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dalakhani
Chuck-

Is it fair to say that he didnt finish strong because he had to start his run much earlier than he would have liked thus taking a little starch out in the last furlong?
No. i cant believe that knowledge people are calling this a tough trip? They didnt go 44.2, they went 46.20. How hard did he have to run to catch them? The went the last 3/8 in 40 seconds and he made up 6 lengths in that span. Is that good? Using that theory Past the Point was far superior to everyone because he started his run in the first turn and only lost by a length. using a rough estimate Curlin ran his first 6 furlongs in close to 110.4 to 111. Why should he be tired after that? Maybe he was short or not right but this was not a great effort and that is using his prior efforts as a measuring stick.

Cannon Shell 08-31-2008 02:19 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaHoss9698
You expect a lot in this day and age.
Where exactly was the problem with his trip? I expect my stars to finish faster than 40 seconds for the last 3 furlongs and faster than 14 seconds for the last 1/8th. Especially with tiring leaders that are backing up in front of him and without a straw in his path and without having to worry about moving too soon and getting caught from behind. I guess i ask too much.

SentToStud 08-31-2008 02:32 PM
Tricky trips are always a challenge. Much llike sneaky good trips.

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=e7mmrF-4rUE

Cannon Shell 08-31-2008 03:14 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaHoss9698
Where did I say he had a rough trip? I said it was a bit trickier than you mentioned. By no means was it tough, but TFM was correct in saying that Curlin was essentially the only horse to make a move. I'm not a horse whisperer, so I don't know why he didn't bring his "A" game yesterday. But, if I had to guess, I think he's tired. From what I have no idea, maybe the trip to Dubai, who knows. I just don't know what your point is. Yeah, the Curlin that ran yesterday is multiple lengths slower than the one we saw in Dubai. No sh it. He's a star by today's standards, but not an all time great. No sh it.
TFM said his move was impressive. I disagreed. His race was substandard yet I keep hearing how just winning matters, the race was tougher than it looked, the speed figures came back good. If Georgia(the number 1 team) beat Georgia Southern(subpar opponent) yesterday with a last second field goal I sure that we be talking about how poorly Georgia played instead of how great of a kick it was to win the game.


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