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-   -   Saturdays Top Performers ? (http://www.derbytrail.com/forums/showthread.php?t=23300)

kgar311 06-15-2008 04:23 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pedigree Ann
Cushion track is not Polytrack. Poly was designed for turfers in GB to work on when the gallops were wet, and to race on in the winter when the turf is 'way too soft to race on. Cushion has a completely different origin, and seems to play much more like traditional dirt.
All of it is crap to me anyways. So now instead of track bias we need to handicap which type of wax they are running on too? What ever happened to dirt and turf. All of these non horsemen intellectuals are overthinking and ruining the game.

Cannon Shell 06-15-2008 04:39 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by kgar311
I think there is some short sightedness when it comes to this race and what they were trying to do. I think this was a test to see how he would do against the "rest" of the handicap division. Curlin does not look like hes pointing towards the BCC and who knows about BB. So seeing the classic is being run on the turf, oh I mean polytrack, I think this is a good sign that they might and I mean might, try pointing this horse to the classic if they can get a similar field minus Curlin.
They ran him there because there were few options available especially so with his ownership situation and the fact it was a big money race. You may be correct in that they may point to the classic but that was not the intention of running in this race but may be a result of it.

Cannon Shell 06-15-2008 04:40 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by kgar311
No, the top handicappers aren't racing on poly and if he can beat them on their own turf, no pun intended, then im sure he will have an easier time with them on poly. I believe a poly with be thrown in the near future. Maybe the pacific classic?
Who outside of curlin are the top handicappers?

Danzig 06-15-2008 04:41 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pedigree Ann
Cushion track is not Polytrack. Poly was designed for turfers in GB to work on when the gallops were wet, and to race on in the winter when the turf is 'way too soft to race on. Cushion has a completely different origin, and seems to play much more like traditional dirt.
altho there are various brand names, i'd imagine that when someone says cushion, poly, tapeta, they're talking about an AWT. at any rate, they're all NOT dirt.

Danzig 06-15-2008 04:42 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cannon Shell
Who outside of curlin are the top handicappers?
on dirt? lol that's an incredibly short list. it includes:





as for AWT, i'd imagine heatseeker and tiago would be first to be mentioned.

Cannon Shell 06-15-2008 04:45 PM
As opposed to the compelling question of Einstein running on polytrack, I would love to know where Curlin will run next assuming he has the same ownership issues in NY that Einstein does and he surely wont be pointed to synthetic track races which rules out California? Maybe the Arlington million or Islen?

Danzig 06-15-2008 04:52 PM
guess it depends on whether or not they can get the new york license snafu taken care of. but it's a good question.

if they really want to run him on turf, surely they would stay in country and try it first, rather than the arc be his first time?? but that begs the question...if he can run on turf, can he run on poly? of course the two don't always go hand in hand...

Cannon Shell 06-15-2008 05:42 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Danzig
guess it depends on whether or not they can get the new york license snafu taken care of. but it's a good question.

if they really want to run him on turf, surely they would stay in country and try it first, rather than the arc be his first time?? but that begs the question...if he can run on turf, can he run on poly? of course the two don't always go hand in hand...
I am not sure that they can get the license thing cleared up in NY. I mean the guys in jail arent getting out anytime soon. Unless Woodbine creates some kind of special turf race I just dont know where they could possibly run except for Arlington or Monmouth.

blackthroatedwind 06-15-2008 05:45 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cannon Shell
I am not sure that they can get the license thing cleared up in NY. I mean the guys in jail arent getting out anytime soon. Unless Woodbine creates some kind of special turf race I just dont know where they could possibly run except for Arlington or Monmouth.

France.

Cannon Shell 06-15-2008 06:02 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind
France.
Do you think he will only use one prep in france before the Arc and not run in the US again?

blackthroatedwind 06-15-2008 06:04 PM
The Prix Neil?

Danzig 06-15-2008 06:06 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cannon Shell
I am not sure that they can get the license thing cleared up in NY. I mean the guys in jail arent getting out anytime soon. Unless Woodbine creates some kind of special turf race I just dont know where they could possibly run except for Arlington or Monmouth.
i'm not too sure about what is going on with their license..didn't pay much attention as i really don't care or feel bad for them. horrible, isn't it?:rolleyes:

yeah, pretty much leave mth and arl--i just think if they're seriously thinking grass later this year (i wonder just how serious they are?), against europes best, they should try him on it a lot closer to home first.

blackthroatedwind 06-15-2008 06:09 PM
The funny thing is that even if by some chance he likes the grass, and ran in the Arlington Million and won, he would still get his head handed to him in the Arc.

Believe me, I would admire them for going, and think it would be neat....but he would get positively drowned. You really need to be at the Arc and see them hosing down the course to appreciate how different the racing is over there.

Rileyoriley 06-15-2008 06:17 PM
They've mentioned the Prix Foy as a prep for the Arc.

blackthroatedwind 06-15-2008 06:30 PM
Who's the last US based horse to try the Arc?

At least I think I know. Hint.....though only Chuck will get it.....his trainer was a wild man.

jcs11204 06-15-2008 06:32 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by kgar311
Does anyone think that Eistein put in a hell of a performance? I remember a few posts that began with "why" and "poorly handled" I think he made a real good showing for himself.
NO, NOTHING SPECIAL...curlin was never asked, and einsten barley outfinished a 20-1 shot, who is really just a horse for the deleware course

jcs11204 06-15-2008 06:32 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind
The funny thing is that even if by some chance he likes the grass, and ran in the Arlington Million and won, he would still get his head handed to him in the Arc.

Believe me, I would admire them for going, and think it would be neat....but he would get positively drowned. You really need to be at the Arc and see them hosing down the course to appreciate how different the racing is over there.
i disagree.

Cannon Shell 06-15-2008 06:34 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind
The funny thing is that even if by some chance he likes the grass, and ran in the Arlington Million and won, he would still get his head handed to him in the Arc.

Believe me, I would admire them for going, and think it would be neat....but he would get positively drowned. You really need to be at the Arc and see them hosing down the course to appreciate how different the racing is over there.
I think there are some interesting questions that may arise if he doesnt run again in the US. Namely can a horse who only runs one time in the US be named Horse of the year if that race is not a BC race? If he were to run in the Arlington million or another US turf race and win would he get support for turf champion off of one race? If BB were to come back and win the Travers would he get enough support for HOY?

blackthroatedwind 06-15-2008 06:37 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cannon Shell
I think there are some interesting questions that may arise if he doesnt run again in the US. Namely can a horse who only runs one time in the US be named Horse of the year if that race is not a BC race? If he were to run in the Arlington million or another US turf race and win would he get support for turf champion off of one race? If BB were to come back and win the Travers would he get enough support for HOY?

If Curlin is HOY with only one US win then the Eclipse awards become even more meaningless. There is a precedent for being turf champ with one turf win but I suppose it depends if there are others with multiple turf wins. As for Big Brown, if he wins the Travers, another horse will have to do something exceptional to beat him for HOY. Of course, I look forward to our first Polytrack HOY. I'm sure Michael Dickinson would vote for him.

Cannon Shell 06-15-2008 06:38 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind
Who's the last US based horse to try the Arc?

At least I think I know. Hint.....though only Chuck will get it.....his trainer was a wild man.
A Penna, Sr.?


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