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-   -   What Smarty Jones faced in 2004 & what Big Brown faces on Saturday....the difference? (http://www.derbytrail.com/forums/showthread.php?t=22946)

freddymo 06-02-2008 09:29 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hickory Hill Hoff
Eddington was just getting real good when he got hurt and was retired. Who knows, maybe someone out of this Belmont Stakes group will be just as good as the mentioned horses.
There is a better shot Big Brown is better then Big Red then any of these other rodents are close to Eddington and Rock Hard Ten.. Save Casinos Drive who could be something very special as well.

Hickory Hill Hoff 06-02-2008 09:30 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by RolloTomasi
Good point. Denis of Cork could make a lot of noise if managed properly. Tale of Ekati, being by Tale of the Cat, no matter what his talent level, to me doesn't seem a classic type horse (I expect a Grand Slam or Scan type effort from him--which is to say he will drop out of a forward position at the top of the stretch). I'd look for him, if he were in any other barn than Barclay Tagg's, to point for mile races and extended sprints subsequently.

I have no idea who Ready's Echo is. Everytime I see his name I think of the horse that was a bad 2nd to Majestic Warrior in the Hopeful who then ran last in the Champagne. The only thing I know about him is that he's not that horse. Which is probably a good thing...
Take a look at his races.....he may not win, but he could be a price underneath in the exotics.

eajinabi 06-02-2008 09:33 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hickory Hill Hoff
Eddington was just getting real good when he got hurt and was retired. Who knows, maybe someone out of this Belmont Stakes group will be just as good as the mentioned horses.
Well before the Preakness and Belmont, Eddington was touted as being a monster race horse even before his MSW, ALW1 but lost 3 straight thereafter.

I dont see others being a good horse from this yrs crop other than some fine sprinters like PYRO and Colonel John.

Hickory Hill Hoff 06-02-2008 09:36 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by eajinabi
Well before the Preakness and Belmont, Eddington was touted as being a monster race horse even before his MSW, ALW1 but lost 3 straight thereafter.

I dont see others being a good horse from this yrs crop other than some fine sprinters like PYRO and Colonel John.
Exactly, he was touted....never really lived up to the hype though.

eajinabi 06-02-2008 09:52 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hickory Hill Hoff
Exactly, he was touted....never really lived up to the hype though.
Thats exacly the point. Who in this Belmont field (other than BB and Casino Drive of course)was even touted as being a superstar horse??

pgardn 06-02-2008 10:09 PM
Smarty was like 9-0-0 at that point?

No Eddington, Rock Hard Ten, or Birdstone.
After being a doubter after the Derby, this
race firmly stated that this horse was
very talented and extraordinarily tough for me.

This was the race that showed Smarty was
a champion.

Bobby Fischer 06-02-2008 10:31 PM
smarty was not born to win the belmont, and he didn't get the perfect ride that he needed in the belmont. He was too sharp , Elliot was too eager.

Brown is bred better than most of these for 12furlongs, he has the best jockey in the world and a high powered trainer. Doesn't mean he can't lose, but he has the advantage over Smarty Jones.

freddymo 06-02-2008 10:33 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bobby Fischer
smarty was not born to win the belmont, and he didn't get the perfect ride that he needed in the belmont. He was too sharp , Elliot was too eager.

Brown is bred better than most of these for 12furlongs, he has the best jockey in the world and a high powered trainer. Doesn't mean he can't lose, but he has the advantage over Smarty Jones.
Best jock in the world? Isnt this the same guy who had to leave California to get a mount?

freddymo 06-02-2008 10:33 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bobby Fischer
smarty was not born to win the belmont, and he didn't get the perfect ride that he needed in the belmont. He was too sharp , Elliot was too eager.

Brown is bred better than most of these for 12furlongs, he has the best jockey in the world and a high powered trainer. Doesn't mean he can't lose, but he has the advantage over Smarty Jones.
Tons of Boundary's get a mile and a half?

blackthroatedwind 06-02-2008 10:40 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hickory Hill Hoff
Other than Casino Drive, it looks like the same cast of characters.

It's arguable that Birdstone, Rock Hard Ten and Eddington were all better than any horse Big Brown has ever faced.

blackthroatedwind 06-02-2008 10:44 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by freddymo
Best jock in the world? Isnt this the same guy who had to leave California to get a mount?

He's also the same guy who blew the Triple Crown with Real Quiet when he sent that one after Grand Slam and Chilito, two horses that could only have won the Belmont as part of a relay team, at the three eighths pole.

A very wise man once told me that Kent rode that race like he just wanted to get it over with. Of course, it took one of the all time great rides by Gary Stevens to beat him.

Bobby Fischer 06-02-2008 10:46 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by freddymo
Tons of Boundary's get a mile and a half?
I'm a big believer in female family stamina combined with visual appraisal.

Bobby Fischer 06-02-2008 10:51 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by freddymo
Best jock in the world? Isnt this the same guy who had to leave California to get a mount?
Best jockey in the United States or best dirt racing jockey is a lot more fair.

freddymo 06-02-2008 10:51 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bobby Fischer
smarty was not born to win the belmont, and he didn't get the perfect ride that he needed in the belmont. He was too sharp , Elliot was too eager.

Brown is bred better than most of these for 12furlongs, he has the best jockey in the world and a high powered trainer. Doesn't mean he can't lose, but he has the advantage over Smarty Jones.
If I drive a porsche 969 and Jimmy Johnson drives a Saturn trust me he aint beating me once around Daytona.. Any jockey can look like the best in the world when there horse is 30 lengths the best

PPerfectfan 06-02-2008 11:09 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind
He's also the same guy who blew the Triple Crown with Real Quiet when he sent that one after Grand Slam and Chilito, two horses that could only have won the Belmont as part of a relay team, at the three eighths pole.

A very wise man once told me that Kent rode that race like he just wanted to get it over with. Of course, it took one of the all time great rides by Gary Stevens to beat him.
And the same jock that cost Kotoshan the Japan Turf cause he still couldnt find the finish line after being called into the stewards office after misjudging it twice before???? yeah he is realllllll smart. :zz:

blackthroatedwind 06-02-2008 11:21 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by PPerfectfan
And the same jock that cost Kotoshan the Japan Turf cause he still couldnt find the finish line after being called into the stewards office after misjudging it twice before???? yeah he is realllllll smart. :zz:

And misjudged it at Keeneland again last year.

The problem with Desormeaux is that he is a really talented rider....and way too often rides poorly.

Bobby Fischer 06-02-2008 11:24 PM
im just saying , smarty was a nice story. Had a trainer who is a real good horseman and a rehabillitated jockey out to prove second chances really do make good..

this here with Brown is the best that money can buy.

eajinabi 06-02-2008 11:28 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by PPerfectfan
And the same jock that cost Kotoshan the Japan Turf cause he still couldnt find the finish line after being called into the stewards office after misjudging it twice before???? yeah he is realllllll smart. :zz:
Kotashaan or Kostroma?

the_fat_man 06-02-2008 11:39 PM
Kent is definitely an enigma. There are things he does much better than the other jocks and his comments on pace show a relatively high level understanding of it. Then again, some of his poor rides are about as bad as any I've ever seen or imagined.

Scurlogue Champ 06-03-2008 01:16 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hickory Hill Hoff
Other than Rock Hard Ten & Purge....looks the same here.
Eddington, Rock Hard Ten, and Purge all turned out to be pretty decent horses.


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