His Fla. Derby and Swale weren't that bad - he's ok for this year - nowhere near the top but he's useful enough. . .

borderline?

Right. Visionaire has what? One win in a monsoon over Texas Wildshatter, who was beaten a half-mile in his next start? Awesome. Can't argue with that. Oh wait, there was also his monstrous, sound-barrier shattering FIFTH in the Blue Grass. I stand corrected.

Z Fortune may very well win this race but I'd be careful who I'd argue he's better than. I think we all saw pretty clearly that the Ark Derby was an abysmal horse race that was given a very high Beyer yet was chock full of extremely average horses. If Gayego and Z Fortune's terrible performances weren't enough to convince you, look up the Lone Star Derby also rans that were Ark Derby participants.

In Z Fortune's other "good" race he held off the monster Blackberry Road.

NT

He's no monster, but Visionaire sucks.

What about Medjool? I am going to play him in tri's with the above choices with any kind of odds.

I saw that jcs made a reappearance today. If he's here then what the hell are we doing talking about this race, he probably had this thing figured out three or four weeks ago.

NT

He's betting a Cowbal Cal/Court Vision exacta, because it probably has a better shot of coming in in here than it did in the Derby.

I can't believe there is an argument over who is better.....Smooth Air or Visionaire.


For what it's worth, Smooth Air is OK at 7F.

For someone who worships Beyer figures, I'd love to know what you think makes Visionaire so much better than Smooth Air.

First of, just say it, you embarrassed yourself with the " First Defence is a better horse than Commentator " line.

Since when do I worship Beyer figs? As I've said here many times, they are a small part of my handicapping and use them as a rough guide.

But mostly, when did I say that Visionaire was better than Smooth Air?

I figured you were implying that with the "I can't believe there's an argument" line, but I guess not.

I said I think FD is just as good as Commentator, if not better. He chased a loose pacesetter through wicked fractions and flattened out late. BFD. It's easier to set fast fractions than to chase them, IMO. I still think First Defence will still have a good year, and he can do other things than go to the front and hold on for dear life.

I took it as he can't believe there is an argument because they both suck.

Come on, Joey, you can do it.....ya know, like the Fonz......I was w-w-w-w-w-w-wrong.

LOL, they were just referencing that on the ESPN NBA broadcast, trying to get Breen to say it because he (as usual) wet his pants over a hard foul.

Sorry....but winning a few races this year (Gotham being one of em) doesnt make a horse awful. Maybe he isnt a world beater...but hell...he won a 200k race.

Calling him awful is ridiculous.

He's not very good - better? He's awful compared to what a lot of people think about him. And the Gotham was a total joke.

Yes...and Z fortune and Smooth Air have monsterous wins also. Please.....Who have they beaten?

All 3 are ok 3 yr olds....I cant see a HUGE difference between any of em.

Z fortune has an allowance race where he beat nada in Dec. Then he beats the mighty Blackberry Road in The Lecomte....Blackberry Road hasnt done a thing all year. The Darp is a nice horse though.........

Smooth Air had a nice race in The Hutcheson....then runs 3rd to 2 average horses at Tampa...suck up 2nd in FL Derby ahead a bunch of misfits (show me one decent horse who ran in there besides BB)....


As far as the Derby....Z fortune..Smooth Air...and Visionaire all finished basically within 2 lengths of eachother in order....so to say that one of them is garbage and the other 2 aren't is rather ridiculous

I love this guy's argument that those two are ok but Visionaire sucks.

I wonder how much he lost on Visionaire in The Bluegrass ?