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-   -   BCS shafted Mizzou and the fans.... (http://www.derbytrail.com/forums/showthread.php?t=19110)

King Glorious 01-02-2008 06:16 PM
There is a difference in playing a team in a BCS game and playing a legitimate title contender in a BCS game. For instance, say Hawaii had been pitted against Kansas. I think they would have had a chance against a team like Kansas, a team that shouldn't be in a BCS game in the first place. I think that this year, Georgia is legitimately one of the four best teams in the country.

JJP 01-02-2008 07:00 PM
I heard that bookmakers in Vegas and offshore would've had USC favored over either LSU or Ohio State. Yet they aren't in the title game. Once again, the BCS f-ks up.

I'd be satisfied with a 4 team playoff, since I know 8 or 16 would be way too over the top for the hard core traditionalists.

rontheman1964 01-02-2008 07:04 PM
I have trouble with the BCS penalizing Mizzou for making their conference championship game and losing. Their only 2 losses are to the same team...Oklahoma....a BCS team. Kansas gets into a BCS bowl as the "Cinderella team" when Missouri has beaten them head-to-head. Mizzou also owns a win over another BCS team...Illinois.

It seems a team is better off not taking the risk of a late season loss and NOT play in their conference championship game. (Example- Georgia) Or to not have a championship game at all (USC and Ohio St and Illinois). Maybe Mizzou should have declined to play OU again and made a BCS game that way.

Also, what is wrong with looking for better match-ups? How about Kansas vs Hawaii if you have to have both in th BCS? How about both at large teams playing each other....USC vs Georgia? This system could be so much more entertaining to the fans if we could break from the structure of conference tie-ins and having specific conferences dictate where they will or won't play (Pac-10 and Big-10). Make those two cry-baby conferences adopt a championship game so they are on equal footing with the other major conferences. Then they will have the same opportunity for the late season win or loss that puts them in or out of the BCS title game. (Then they won't have the 60 day layoff between their last game and the BCS title game.)

Danzig 01-02-2008 10:16 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by rontheman1964
Watching Georgia pound Hawaii and thinking how much better this game would have been if Missouri was in Hawaii's place. Is it Missouri's fault that this year 3 of the top 10 teams play in the Big 12 conference?

Heck, I would have welcomed the idea of them playing in the Rose Bowl instead of watching the Illini struggle to get out of their own way.

I even heard Oklahoma offered to go to the Orange Bowl this year instead of making their second straight trip to the Fiesta Bowl and give their fans a change of scenery. The conference money would be the same since they would take Kansas' place and send the Jayhawks to the Fiesta instead. Plus they are the higher BCS seed and they would face the higher seed in Va Tech. Alas, the BCS ruled against this idea. I think afraid of schools setting up their own "highest rated opponent" and setting the groundwork of the fans and media wanting the next step....a playoff.

One more complaint. If the BCS is worried about one conference getting too many teams in the BCS games; why aren't they the least concerned about where teams play? Why have conference ties? Is anyone else tired of watcing USC play a home game in the Rose Bowl? Wouldn't you love to see a good SEC team show up to play USC instead of an average Big 10 team? Or better yet, send USC to the Sugar Bowl to play an SEC team? It's as bad as when a team had to go to the Orange Bowl to play one of the schools from Florida.

Well, that's about it for tonite. The rest of the BCS games look pretty predictable as far as who will win; it's just a matter of the pointspreads.
when it was rumored last year that lsu would get a rose bowl berth, 50k fans down here pre-ordered tix. then they got the news that they were sugar bowl bound. talk about disappointment! change can be slow, but there have been some in the last few years-most notably the title game being separate from the four 'big bowls'. who knows what may happen next.

Danzig 01-02-2008 10:17 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by jpops757
Conspiracy, the real reason for all the bowls and no playoffs? The NFL.$$$$$$$$. How much national attention is generated by 90% of the bowl games. If they were part of a system to determine the Nat Champ, what a cash cow. This would move the NFL from the front page and dilute from the nfl and there money hold.
32 nfl teams.
over 120 1-a teams, and half get a bowl berth. how large of a post season would there be to include that amount to make up for loss of a bowl.

good luck with that.

Danzig 01-02-2008 10:21 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oaklawnfan
Mizzou should have been in the Orange Bowl. Kansas should have played Arkansas in the Sugar Bowl. Oklahoma should have played USC in the BCS Championship and my beloved Warriors should have stayed out of the Quarter.
If you've never experienced it, the average Game Day Saturday in Hawaii starts early in the morning at the local sports bar with sat. tv watching horse racing and wagering off-shore on the laptop while downing a moco loco and some brews. Next stop the stadium parking lot for more brews.
Now that's what I call Aloha!:rolleyes:
arkansas in the sugar?! lol hell, they didn't even belong in the cotton.

mizzou should have gotten in rather than kansas imo. and they showed why vs the razorbacks. hell of a game.

as for hawaii, i was there to see them play louisiana tech, who gave the warriors all they could handle. i felt their record was what it was due to a soft schedule, and they proved it when facing a good team in GA.

Danzig 01-02-2008 10:23 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by King Glorious
Hawaii being in a BCS game was a joke. There is no way they should have been there. Sure, they won all of their games on their cream schedule but they struggled in a few to do that. They are not a program that is on par with the ones in the major conferences. They don't have the financial abilities to keep pace and they just don't have the players. Sure, there are times when these mid-majors can compete with their upper level brotheren (Boise St. over Oklahoma last year) and when some of the second division teams can compete with the first level ones (App St over Michigan) but matching up a mid-major team with a legitimate national title contender is asking for trouble. And they got it.

Also, back when South Florida was ranked #2, I argued that this was ridiculous. I don't care about what the records are and who should move up at the point of a win and who should move down at the point of a loss. That whole ranking system is stupid. If LSU is ranked #1 and Georgia is #2 and UNLV is #3...UNLV shouldn't automatically move up ahead of Georgia if Georgia loses a road game at LSU. But that's how the rankings do things. Lose and you automatically move down. Some argued that South Florida deserved their ranking. Did anyone see them the other day get destroyed by an Oregon team that was playing without Dennis Dixon?
also depends on when you are a loser in the season--lose early and have a chance to move back up. lose late, too bad.
always a problem when opinion decides who's best, rather than proving it on a field.
case in point, i thought OU would handle WVA.

Danzig 01-02-2008 10:24 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by JJP
I heard that bookmakers in Vegas and offshore would've had USC favored over either LSU or Ohio State. Yet they aren't in the title game. Once again, the BCS f-ks up.

I'd be satisfied with a 4 team playoff, since I know 8 or 16 would be way too over the top for the hard core traditionalists.
usc effed themselves up losing to stanford.

SilverRP 01-03-2008 09:05 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by SilverRP
Yes, OU... 2 road losses, one on a field goal at the end of game and one without Bradford for the whole game. Watch tonight.... You'll see what I'm talking about. Who are your top 2 teams?
Hahaha, what a dumb ass I am..... Dead wrong on this one. Wow, talking about being manhandled, WV shoved them around all night.... But at the end of it all, both teams are going home today. Of course, one team is happy, the other not, but neither team is moving on to next week.

pgardn 01-03-2008 11:37 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Danzig
usc effed themselves up losing to stanford.
USC should be automatically penalized.

They lost to Stanford, who in turn lost to Notre Dame.

Notre Dame's 2 wins came off Pac-10 teams (Stanford, UCLA).
In my distorted mind, that eliminates any Pac-10
team from a National Title game.

In hindsight now, it looks like Mizz. and Georgia both
got slighted with horrible opponents. I am also starting to
wonder about Mr. Stoops and his bowl game preps.

Sooner fans are getting heavy doses of depression
in January. This makes 3 very humbling (nah make that humiliating)
loses when favored.
USC, Boise, now W.Va.

alysheba4 01-03-2008 11:47 AM
without a playoff, the WHOLE bcs thing is a complete joke......... when was the last time o.s played??? almost 2 months ago. none of these games mean dick.

SniperSB23 01-03-2008 12:06 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Danzig
32 nfl teams.
over 120 1-a teams, and half get a bowl berth. how large of a post season would there be to include that amount to make up for loss of a bowl.

good luck with that.
You keep the bowl system and have a 16 team playoff. Play the round of 16 on Thanksgiving weekend and the round of 8 the following week at the sites of the higher ranked teams. You then use two bowls for the semi-finals and populate all the remaining bowls using the teams that didn't qualify for the playoffs along with the 12 teams already eliminated from the playoffs. The week following New Years you have the National Championship Game. Now there's your cash cow.

pgardn 01-03-2008 12:33 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by SniperSB23
You keep the bowl system and have a 16 team playoff. Play the round of 16 on Thanksgiving weekend and the round of 8 the following week at the sites of the higher ranked teams. You then use two bowls for the semi-finals and populate all the remaining bowls using the teams that didn't qualify for the playoffs along with the 12 teams already eliminated from the playoffs. The week following New Years you have the National Championship Game. Now there's your cash cow.
Wont work.
All the diff. Bowl's would have to vie for the playoff games.
You have to deal with the Bowl committee's and the University
Presidents and AD's. This is a cash cow as it stands right now.
The bowl games have made huge amounts of money this year.

Then you have the problem of a "home game" being given to a lower seed.
The Rose Bowl will not go away. Which of the playoff games do you give the Rose Bowl? Tis a mess. Heck its not just the Rose Bowl, the Orange Bowl, the Sugar Bowl, they all want their piece. And they got their piece right now. I dont know how one would divy up the playoff games thru these entities (this includes the NCAA) that control everything. There is no single TV network that can come in and say hey you guys lets straighten this thing out with a playoff system and we can all make more money.
If say... NBC tried this, the Bowl would just go to a diff TV network and say NBC no longer is in the running for the money our Bowl will generate, the bidding is now between... it is a real mess.

Cannon Shell 01-03-2008 12:41 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by pgardn
Wont work.
All the diff. Bowl's would have to vie for the playoff games.
You have to deal with the Bowl committee's and the University
Presidents and AD's. This is a cash cow as it stands right now.
The bowl games have made huge amounts of money this year.
But the bowl games are not owned by the NCAA, they are privately held. Instead of wasting time chasing baseball players that may or may not have taken PED's, Congress should look at this system and try to figure out why a few college presidents and commissioners are so interested in making money for others. The paltry sums that are now awarded to colleges would pale in comparison to a playoff system.

SniperSB23 01-03-2008 12:42 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by pgardn
Wont work.
All the diff. Bowl's would have to vie for the playoff games.
You have to deal with the Bowl committee's and the University
Presidents and AD's. This is a cash cow as it stands right now.
The bowl games have made huge amounts of money this year.

Then you have the problem of a "home game" being given to a lower seed.
The Rose Bowl will not go away. Which of the playoff games do you give the Rose Bowl? Tis a mess. Heck its not just the Rose Bowl, the Orange Bowl, the Sugar Bowl, they all want their piece. And they got their piece right now. I dont know how one would divy up the playoff games thru these entities (this includes the NCAA) that control everything. There is no single TV network that can come in and say hey you guys lets straighten this thing out with a playoff system and we can all make more money.
If say... NBC tried this, the Bowl would just go to a diff TV network and say NBC no longer is in the running for the money our Bowl will generate, the bidding is now between... it is a real mess.
The round of 16 and round of 8 would not be Bowl games. They would all be played at the site of the higher seed. Two Bowls would be associated with the playoffs each year as the semifinal games. Those Bowls would rotate between the normal BCS Bowls. The other BCS Bowls that aren't in the playoffs would get first choice of all teams but the 4 in the playoffs. Any year the Rose Bowl isn't in the playoffs they would get their B10-P10 matchup.

If they build it they will work it out with the TV Networks. That is the least of their worries. The networks will be tripping over each other trying to get the rights.

Cannon Shell 01-03-2008 12:47 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by pgardn


Then you have the problem of a "home game" being given to a lower seed.
The Rose Bowl will not go away. Which of the playoff games do you give the Rose Bowl? Tis a mess. Heck its not just the Rose Bowl, the Orange Bowl, the Sugar Bowl, they all want their piece. And they got their piece right now. I dont know how one would divy up the playoff games thru these entities (this includes the NCAA) that control everything.
And my question remains. Why does the Rose Bowl have any say over anything? I dont give a damn about the Rose Bowl, it's parade or tradition and I'm sure that most other fans would agree. If you put USC and Georgia on a high school field and called it the Derby Trail Bowl it would be more appealing and would get better ratings. Why are old white guys in Orange sport jackets calling the shots unless there is lot of pockets being lined?

pgardn 01-03-2008 12:50 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cannon Shell
But the bowl games are not owned by the NCAA, they are privately held. Instead of wasting time chasing baseball players that may or may not have taken PED's, Congress should look at this system and try to figure out why a few college presidents and commissioners are so interested in making money for others. The paltry sums that are now awarded to colleges would pale in comparison to a playoff system.
That is what it would take.
Because the NCAA has no desire whatsoever for a playoff system.
And the paltry sums are paltry for the big schools.

The International Bowl in balmy Canada on Saturday (you deftly left this big game of your big bowl contest) will give a very nice amount of money to Rutgers and Ball State. They would never see this money in a playoff system.

Sharing...?

Cannon Shell 01-03-2008 12:56 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by pgardn
That is what it would take.
Because the NCAA has no desire whatsoever for a playoff system.
And the paltry sums are paltry for the big schools.

The International Bowl in balmy Canada on Saturday (you deftly left this big game of your big bowl contest) will give a very nice amount of money to Rutgers and Ball State. They would never see this money in a playoff system.

Sharing...?
The payoff for the international bowl is $750k per team, which is before expenses. They would make more money if they held a bake sale.

SniperSB23 01-03-2008 12:57 PM
Come to think of it you would actually be improving the BCS bowls overall with the system I want. Two of the BCS bowls in the playoffs would be getting the top four teams. The next four best teams would meet in the non-playoff BCS Bowls. So the four BCS Bowls would get the top 8 teams. Currently the four BCS Bowls get teams 3 through 10. It would trickle all the way down with everyone moving up a notch.

Here is how you keep all the BCS Bowls happy. Two of the four BCS bowls each year are in the playoffs so are happy. One isn't in the playoffs but plays host to the National Championship game so they are very happy. The odd team out each year gets to pick the premier matchup from every team not in the final four for their bowl game (which will likely result in a better game than they currently have). The bowls all rotate each year so even if the last scenario is least favorable you only have to endure it once every four years.

pgardn 01-03-2008 12:57 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cannon Shell
And my question remains. Why does the Rose Bowl have any say over anything? I dont give a damn about the Rose Bowl, it's parade or tradition and I'm sure that most other fans would agree. If you put USC and Georgia on a high school field and called it the Derby Trail Bowl it would be more appealing and would get better ratings. Why are old white guys in Orange sport jackets calling the shots unless there is lot of pockets being lined?
If you can come up with a system that would insure all the fanfare and money associated with the Rose Bowl, from the parade to all the Illinois fans who like a little Winter vacation, get er done.

There is a good reason for the Bowl's going after the fans that travel from cold climates. There is a reason the Alamo Bowl now always invites a big Ten team now and matches them with a Big 12 team. Huge amount of money for the city who hosts the games.


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