That was bute, not lidocaine....I stand corrected 2 in 1100....Throw the bum out :eek:

Yes, that's true, but this gets to Cardus's point: how come the same individuals never seem to learn from their errors?

The "same individuals" saddle an expotential amount of mounts, with horses stabled around the country - relative to the others. It's not a matter of right or wrong, it is WRONG. Period.
Last year he saddled over 1500 mounts and had zero positives to my knowledge. Is he responsible? Absolutely. If a horse ships in from the SPA training track to AQU and tests positive, even if he personally hasn't seen the horse until race day, he is held accountable. It is his responsibility to take action with his staff to prevent it from happening again, but He ultimately pays the price. Which is fair and right.

I take issue with the fact that there are a couple of trainers that get away with murder because they "never learn"and "Get away with it" . I doubt they personally had anything at all to do with it, frankly. And more to the point, what kind of a trainer would purposely risk a very potential breakdown by knowingly violating the rules regarding lido/bute? Do you honestly believe any trainer would be in business tomorrow if that were the case? Would you give your horse to someone with that rep? I doubt it.

Same issue, same problem and unfortunately, never the same solution. Absent of zero tolerance, there is no universal solution -- not on the regulatory side, nor on the self-governing or self-policing side vis a vis the owners in this industry.

Regardless, you are not going have trainers given lifetime suspensions for a second or third offense of a legal drug that has therapeutic, everyday use on the backstretch. Period. Not only does it not happen, personally, I don't think it should. You want to talk about snake venom, designer or exotic drugs that have zero therapeutic use, steroids, etc. -- OK, great, I am all for it -- however, that is a different discussion as far as I am concerned, a very different one.

In addition, there is an entirely different dimension to this problem. Many people here critisize others -- others who don't live up to, or abide by the standards they themselves claim they would adhere to. That's fine. It's easy to be a critic. Let's see how much that changes the industry. That will never be the standard in the industry.

If you are in this game, and you run your business that way -- great, I don't think anyone should have a problem with that, nor should they care. And, Terry Finley runs his business the way he runs it, as does Jess Jackson, Satish Sanan, Cot Campbell, Coolmore, Barry Irwin, and the guy who owns the nickel claimer at Penn National. Everyone is entitled to run their business anyway they want. You don't like it -- OK, your entitled.

However, that is not going to be governing standard for the industry. Can self-policing work? In some ideal world, perhaps. In practical application, reality, I don't think so. There certainly needs to be change, drastic change, and I've supported that for years. I've contributed time, efforts, money, resources, and more to change in this business and in this sport. I've been in this game my entire adult life. I love this game. But change can go in different directions.

BTW, in this case -- postive test -- gulity! Gary will do his time, pay his fine and he'll come back. He is, should be and must be held accountable.

Eric

because there's no oversight. the industry polices itself, poorly.
asmussen is a mention for the eclipse for trainer. perfect example right there. 20-some drug positives, just came off a six month suspension, but everyone loves a winner, right? when's the last time anyone mentioned his six month 'vacation'? not since that big preakness win as far as i know...

You know, that's a very interesting point; very thought provoking.

Is it the industry's responsibility to police or govern itself? Is this the case in other sports? Rhetorical question, as this sport is very different than others. However, should it be the industry's responsibility to govern and police itself -- because the goeverning bodies can't?

Eric

I find it interesting that the same trainers who have received both numerous and serious suspensions related to drug violations are also the same trainers whose horses often show dramatic improvement when said trainers take over their care.

It's probably just a coincidence.

mine too.

yes, there is likely no connection whatsoever.

Yeah...and one of those horses won the 5th at the Big A today.:rolleyes:

I think what is telling is the CONSTANT movement. I mean if you move up 40% well then you are a good trainer, but when you are moving up 80%-90% of your claiming stock, it isn't hard to come to the assumptions that we are coming to.

It is like when Brady Anderson hit 50 HR's, everyone knew he was roiding, but Major League Baseball.

Exactly. Well Done, Eric.

Brady Anderson was roiding??? Here I thought he was the best leadoff batter in the history of leadoff batter. joking of course.

Brady Anderson was roiding??? Here I thought he was the best leadoff batter in the history of leadoff batter. joking of course.

You can say that again!

I can't wait until that list comes out. I bet you there is ZERO Cubs on it besides Sosa, which is why we have sucked for so long. Haven't had the GOOD STUFF!!!

Yeah, steroid use has really helped the Os.

Ok, they are clean too....