This may be true.
However the horse has something very special.
Guts.

And I am not so sure any of this years crop are special horses. Especially after what I witnessed in the Belmont. Jury is still out on all. I know we have one very good Filly that can compete with the best males. But thats about it.

And I am sure Curlin, SS, AGS, or Rags would not hold up running right at 22.7, 44.2, 1:08.5 fractions and still hold up to win.
So there is no question about the horses speed, I dont care what happened the last 1/16 or 1/8. Those were very tough conditions to run that type of race. Heat index over 100... and the heat index for horses is higher than it is for humans because of the size of their body and inability to efficiently remove heat.

The effort was extraordinary.

You can't fault Hard Spun because he's not as effective going 10 furlongs. That's like faulting a sprinter because he can't go far.

He was 2nd in the Kentucky Derby, which is ten furlongs, and would not have lossed if Street Sense hadn't been allowed to pass 17 horses up the rail without getting stopped.

By the way, even after a stumble, Hard Spun was gaining on Street Sense in the last 100 yards of the Derby.

He's only less effective going a Classic distance when he's NOT ALLOWED to lead due to incompetent rating tactics by his rider -- or horses like Flying First Class and XChanger setting an insane pace.

In the King's Bishop, over a Saratoga track that was not that fast (Street Sense got a 109 Beyer for running a moderate 2:02.70) -- Hard Spun was pressing the pace setter through fractions of 21 and change and 44 1/5ths, while pulling against his rider....

If he can't fully relax when denied the lead, while up on a very hot pace, in a Grade 1 sprint race -- how is he supposed to see out a classic distance when denied the lead and pulling -- at distances much longer?

Do people even realize that through a series of unlikely circumstances this horse WASN'T on the early in the Preakness, WASN'T on the early lead in the Belmont, and WASN'T on the early lead in the Haskell.

Does anyone think a similar styled horse like Commentator was capable of doing anything at a route distance while denied the lead? When allowed to run off on a loose lead in the Whitney, Commentator defeated Horse of the Year Saint Liam in very fast time.

Sure did. Last time I checked his last 1/8th was nothing to write home about. Pretty sure he didn't win that one. :) He can't go 10f. Where was he in the Preakness and Belmont? The horse is a great miler. He just isn't a 10f horse. He will put in a nice effort in the Classic, much like another miler, George Washington did last year, but they are not 10f horses. Neither is Discreet Cat.

What is that saying --- A horse can run any distance, if they go slow enough.

The G1 win yesterday was worth 15 million for Porter. The deal was $20 mil without a G1 win and $35 mil with. I talked about that the day they announced it. So this race had nothing to do with the BCC and everything to do with them scrambling trying to find a G1 that he could win. Now Darley has to add 15 million to the check, they could care less now. Oh did anyone by chance hear Porter thanking everyone yesterday? "I'd like to thank Larry and Cindy Jones, Mario Pino, and the whole Fox Hill Fart team, I'm mean Fox Hill Farm team." Was a funny blooper.

so, losing by a length is the difference between getting or not getting the 10f? then i guess AGS REALLY can't get 10f, as far back as he was in the derby, neither can curlin--altho that one did almost get 12f. hmm, can't get the 10f, but got 9 1/2, and lost at 12 by a nose. ok, i think i get it.
yeah, that all makes sense to me...:rolleyes:

I think this is a very reasonable assessment.

It isn't a matter of whether or not he can get 10f. Obviously he can. He just can't beat the top horses at that distance. He has tried repeatedly and failed repeatedly. Curlin has tried and won. AGS has tried and won. They don't have problems getting the distance.

Hard Spun's best distance is 8f and shorter. Look at the last 1/8th of all his route races. He tires.

Are you saying you know better than the trainer who ran him in a 7f race yesterday instead of a 10f race? The Travers is a much more prestigious race than the Kings Bishop but for some reason the trainer went 7f.

If he runs poorly in the Classic nobody will care. Everyone already knows he can't run that far. Great race for him because he can't hurt his reputation, just like Coolmore's miler last year, George Washington.

i think the 7f choice was due to street sense going in the travers, as well as the want to get that gr 1, why not take what may be the easier route? it worked. i'm not saying he is BETTER at the longer, i'm saying the contention he can't handle 10f is wrong. had street sense not gotten a perfect, dream trip in the derby, hard spun is your winner. he has finished ahead of curlin, ahead of AGS, he's in the mix every time.

and please, make up your mind. in your previous post you said he can't get it, now you say he can. which is it??

what was the unlikely circumstance in the Haskell? Hard Spun ran the race his own way in hand, took the lead heading for home and was inhaled by Any Given Saturday.

These circumstances that cause him to be denied every time are called racing. If its happens every time he routes can you really attribute it to special circumstances, or is it more likely that it will be hard for Hard Spun to find a GR1 route race wherein he is handed an uncontested lead in moderate fractions. To me that is the more unlikely circumstance.

He can obviously get the distance, he has already. He just can't "get" this distance, meaning he doesn't want to run that far. His last 1/8th is always slow. He has yet to win going longer than 9f and more than once he gave up the lead in the stretch.

There is nothing wrong with being a great miler. He is a great miler and a very good router, but clearly he is not as tough past 9f.

well, that was quite a struggle to find that we both feel pretty much the same way about hard spun.
i think he showed a new dimension yesterday tho...unlike his last few, he refused to throw in the towel. and maybe that will make all the difference.

i know some talked about senses next start, wonder where hard spun will go next? surely one more for him as well before the big day.

Hard Spun is looking at the Kentucky Cup Classic at Turfway on September 29.

http://www.thoroughbredtimes.com/bre...assic&b=215926

I love Hard Spun... so happy to see such a gritty colt get his G1 win yesterday. Congrats to his connections. :)

He stumbled coming out of the gate...and was drawn outside of the undefeated one-dimensional Cable Boy....who needed the lead to have any shot.

So, after the stumble, had Pino not put Hard Spun to stout restraint, he would have found himself in a bitter head-to-head speed duel.

Hard Spun got loose in the Kentucky Derby -- in a race over-flowing with speed horses -- he is fast enough to get loose in virtually all Grade 1 route races.

However, his connections have been afraid to use his only real weapon (his natural speed) since the Derby. They decided they had to use it in the King's Bishop...because Hard Spun has never had dirt kicked in his face before, and horses often struggle from the off-the-pace when expieriencing that for the first time.

At this time of the year, all these silly one-dimensional sprinter/milers like Flying First Class and Cable Boy have proven they aren't Grade 1 routers -- and the pace of these big races often start to get much slower.

Good lawd, the horse ran an impressive race - he was all in, and battled back gamely, and won that race on ability and class. He was still blowing incredibly in the winners' circle, wringing with sweat. Good placement, and good job, by Jones!

Plus I bet on him and he still won!

Rick Pitino said it right -- "It takes no talent to be a critic"

Everyone knew that this horse needed to get a G1, and he did it -- and did it impressively. Find all the fault you want, knock the last 1/8th, whatever, heckle the connections for not going wherever it is you think you'd go if you owned/trained/etc. this horse.

This was an impressive race. He got pushed hard and stung early, didn't get a breather, and then got hooked by a horse laying in wait. Got hooked and put him away.

Unless you are breeding mares to him, what difference does it make whether he's at his best at a mile (and under), or if he can go X distance -- he's showed up to every dance and danced pretty well. Are you faulting a sprinter or a miler for not being able to get 9f? Futile arguement or just looking to knock.

Eric

I agree, but the trainer and owner brought it upon themselves with their lies about why they were running in the race. Even the clowns at ESPN were laughing at how they were saying they went in the race because it was a good prep for their eventual plan of the Breeders Cup Classic. Don't insult my intelligence. He was in the race because they needed a grade 1 win for a bonus and they didn't want any part of Street Sense at a distance where their horse has struggled to win. It wasn't because they thought it was a good prep.

So we've decided to let him show what he's good at. We'd like to get him a Grade I win, but mostly we want to get ready for the Breeders' Cup Classic."