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-   -   Hard Spun - Haskell (http://www.derbytrail.com/forums/showthread.php?t=15674)

pgardn 08-03-2007 09:23 AM
I think the real question is how much better have these 3 year old become since the Belmont. The big players, Hard Spun and Any Given Saturday have become significantly better imo. Curlin... I dont know, but he was already very good.

I have not forgotten those fractions in the Belmont. That was horrible for Hard Spun. over 50 seconds for 4f... 1:15 4/5 for 6f.

Sightseek 08-03-2007 09:24 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaHoss9698
Am I the only one that thinks there is other speed in here and Curlin and Any Given Saturday are better horses?
I'm with you on that.

NoLuvForPletch 08-03-2007 09:48 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaHoss9698
Sure, but it's important to realize that those 6 were all very logical, and stalkers and or front runners. I guess point Given in 2001 was more of a mid pack/closer, but with no speed he was up close. In 2002 obviously War Emblem was a front runner as we saw in the Derby and Preakness. Peace Rules in 2003, Lion Heart in 2004, Roman Ruler in 2005 and Bluegrass Cat last year.

Am I the only one that thinks there is other speed in here and Curlin and Any Given Saturday are better horses?
Whether they are better or not isn't the question. I think at Monmouth Hard Spun has a distinct advantage. Curlin very well could be better, not so sure about Any Given Saturday.

Sightseek 08-03-2007 09:50 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by NoLuvForPletch
Whether they are better or not isn't the question. I think at Monmouth Hard Spun has a distinct advantage. Curlin very well could be better, not so sure about Any Given Saturday.
Yeah but Curlin also can be taken back or pressed to the lead.

NoLuvForPletch 08-03-2007 10:09 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sightseek
Yeah but Curlin also can be taken back or pressed to the lead.
IMO there is no way Curlin runs with Hard Spun. That would be suicide for him.

zippyneedsawin 08-03-2007 10:44 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaHoss9698
What makes you think Hard Spun has become significantly better?
Exactly, he hasn't raced since the Belmont. I believe people are overthinking this. It's really between AGS and Curlin, especially with the likely pace scenario.

pgardn 08-03-2007 12:03 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaHoss9698
What makes you think Hard Spun has become significantly better?
I notice you did not ask why I think AGS has become better. His win over Nobiz was good, but there are other things that have happened to AGS imo.
Larry Jones on Hard Spun. Who may not be the most reliable of sources as he is very optimistic. In fact, if Curliln and AGS take enough money, I might just bet him.

gamblin4ever 08-03-2007 12:41 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaHoss9698
I think Hard Spun will be lucky to hit the board here. There is a lot of speed and sprinter speed at that. Stormello is very fast and Cable Boy has some speed.
Cable Boy has 2 fastest 1m70yd times @ Monmouth I believe.

slotdirt 08-03-2007 02:13 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Danzig
oh me too! of course he complains when people confuse him with mario...
Does Mike make early moves on the Pimlico backstretch? If not, then I'm all for him getting the ride on Hard Spun?

Danzig 08-03-2007 04:09 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaHoss9698
Sure, but it's important to realize that those 6 were all very logical, and stalkers and or front runners. I guess point Given in 2001 was more of a mid pack/closer, but with no speed he was up close. In 2002 obviously War Emblem was a front runner as we saw in the Derby and Preakness. Peace Rules in 2003, Lion Heart in 2004, Roman Ruler in 2005 and Bluegrass Cat last year.

Am I the only one that thinks there is other speed in here and Curlin and Any Given Saturday are better horses?
no, there's other speed in there--but remember where the other speed that tried to go with hard spun finished in the derby? they couldn't keep up with him, and he damned near won it...of course, curlin suffered from a poor trip, and came on for third--he's the one to beat here, but i think hard spun can do it.

of course a spun/curlin ex won't pay jack. but i think it's those two at the wire.

Danzig 08-03-2007 04:10 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by slotdirt
Does Mike make early moves on the Pimlico backstretch? If not, then I'm all for him getting the ride on Hard Spun?
not so sure...hard to find stats on him too! he's a mystery guy.

herkhorse 08-03-2007 07:43 PM
HS-AGS/HS-AGS/All/Curlin Superfecta;)

pgardn 08-03-2007 08:09 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaHoss9698
I didn't ask why you thought AGS was better because there is evidence he's better. His Dwyer was a huge step forward.

Trainerspeak is probably the worse thing you can listen to. What's Jones going to say, that he's expecting to run bad?
No its what he is not saying as well... Asmussen on Curlin: The ultimate goal is the BCC of course.
How about asking Asmussen if wanted a slower track another 1/16 or an 1/8 was added. You think he would take that? I do.

Hard Spun has muscled up and ready for this race. We will see if the other speed hurts him. And if Hard Spun goes off at 5/2 Im not biting. Im counting on AGS to be the second favorite.

whodey17 08-03-2007 08:31 PM
I pesonally would love to see this horse on turf. He has a decent turf line on the sire side with My Babu and Djebel

Danzig 08-04-2007 09:08 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaHoss9698
That's the thing though, no one really did go with him in the Derby, he had it pretty much his own way. Stormello, who IMO is faster than Hard Spun took back.

All I know is, if Hard Spun wins I'll have plenty of crow to eat and I'll be losing money.

oh yeah!! the 'new' stormello...they suddenly were going to teach him to rate....that worked well.

sumitas 08-04-2007 10:28 AM
Stormello could very well be the fastest 3 year old miler running today. He should be in the top 3 at the wire.

Samarta 08-04-2007 03:21 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaHoss9698
Stormello seemed like he was rated a bit in the Derby, like was said earlier he also broke from post 17. We saw the real Stormello in the Woody Stephens. He's fast. Maybe he doesn't go, although it would make no sense not to, as it appears that is the only way he wins. Maybe Cable boy doesn't go either but I think the Hard Spuns Derby run will be in their minds. I don't think he'll find himself alone on the lead. Any Given Saturday is my pick. He should get the right kind of trip and I'm hoping Curlin isn't 100%.

I think pino is in a weird spot here. He was criticized publicly and taken off the horse for moving too early. Gomez does the opposite and he's off. What does Pino do?
He makes em run him down.....it's that simple imo.....


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