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-   -   The Mother Goose Stakes (http://www.derbytrail.com/forums/showthread.php?t=14603)

philcski 06-28-2007 04:31 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind
The problem isn't the Grade for the Mother Goose, per se, but the overabundance of opportunities for 3YOs to earn black type. However, there aren't that many Grade 1s and I simply can't understand how this is all we get for this race.....three decent Graded Stakes horses and a borderline claimer.

Now, obviously I understand Todd gets way too many of the good horses, and this has a lot to do with this pathetic race, but first of all why can't he run more than one ( certainly owners aren't happy to concede the race to the mediocre Octave ) and where the hell are the other horses? Did nobody know they were running the Mother Goose this year?
Because Panty Raid sucks, right? She can't beat Octave.

Cannon Shell 06-28-2007 04:37 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind
The problem isn't the Grade for the Mother Goose, per se, but the overabundance of opportunities for 3YOs to earn black type. However, there aren't that many Grade 1s and I simply can't understand how this is all we get for this race.....three decent Graded Stakes horses and a borderline claimer.

Now, obviously I understand Todd gets way too many of the good horses, and this has a lot to do with this pathetic race, but first of all why can't he run more than one ( certainly owners aren't happy to concede the race to the mediocre Octave ) and where the hell are the other horses? Did nobody know they were running the Mother Goose this year?
You would think that there would be a lot of owners that think like you are but it seems they are brainwashed. Funny how everybody in the breeding business talks about Graded Stakes placings and yet grade 1 races on both coasts are routinely 5 (or worse) horse fields.

I rarely think that the Europeans do much better than us but the way they design the stakes schedule of races is far superior to our haphazard, everytrack for themselves way.

blackthroatedwind 06-28-2007 04:39 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by philcski
Because Panty Raid sucks, right? She can't beat Octave.

Doesn't Panty Raid have similar ownership to Octave? In that case it's somewhat understandable that she went out West ( where I also hope she runs ninth ).

If she has different owners whe should definitely be in here. As bad as she is she is not necessarily worse than Boca Grande.

blackthroatedwind 06-28-2007 04:40 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cannon Shell
You would think that there would be a lot of owners that think like you are but it seems they are brainwashed. Funny how everybody in the breeding business talks about Graded Stakes placings and yet grade 1 races on both coasts are routinely 5 (or worse) horse fields.

I rarely think that the Europeans do much better than us but the way they design the stakes schedule of races is far superior to our haphazard, everytrack for themselves way.

Why wouldn't it be in Todd's best interests to run as many as possible?

philcski 06-28-2007 04:46 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind
Doesn't Panty Raid have similar ownership to Octave? In that case it's somewhat understandable that she went out West ( where I also hope she runs ninth ).

If she has different owners whe should definitely be in here. As bad as she is she is not necessarily worse than Boca Grande.
She has different owners (Panty Raid- Glencrest, Octave- Starlight).

If I wasn't a fan of the filly I'd agree with you, just to spite Pletcher. He's a phucking schmuck for pulling this, protecting his own business interests.

She's running 3,000 miles away on a surface she's never tried before against at LEAST 10 others, instead of being at WORST 3rd choice in a 5 horse field, with a G2 win at the distance, at HOME and probably the 2nd choice behind a classic hanger in Octave. Yeah, that makes sense.

philcski 06-28-2007 04:46 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind
Why wouldn't it be in Todd's best interests to run as many as possible?
Because Starlight is one of his top owners and he's gotta make them happy...

As an aside, I knew this disaster of 3YO fillies was coming last year. Anybody remember the Frizette? Truly, honestly, the worst G1 EVER.

blackthroatedwind 06-28-2007 04:58 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by philcski
Because Starlight is one of his top owners and he's gotta make them happy...

As an aside, I knew this disaster of 3YO fillies was coming last year. Anybody remember the Frizette? Truly, honestly, the worst G1 EVER.
The Frizette? How about the Matron?

It's absolute folly that Panty Raid is shipping to the American Oaks and not running here. I could see if the field was tougher, or Todd was already running three, but this is ridiculous. And you know what I think of Panty Raid.

Cannon Shell 06-28-2007 05:03 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind
Why wouldn't it be in Todd's best interests to run as many as possible?
Spread em out and try to win them all.

blackthroatedwind 06-28-2007 05:04 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cannon Shell
Spread em out and try to win them all.
Yup, you're right, makes sense.

philcski 06-28-2007 05:06 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind
The Frizette? How about the Matron?

It's absolute folly that Panty Raid is shipping to the American Oaks and not running here. I could see if the field was tougher, or Todd was already running three, but this is ridiculous. And you know what I think of Panty Raid.
I don't know what the actual number was for the Frizette, but I got a 57 Beyer equivalent for it. A 57!!! Lily Carson literally was in a trot at the end and STILL finished 3rd.

The question this begs is, when are people going to realize there's plenty of other capable trainers out there and spread the wealth? I honestly think that's a large portion of the field size issues in stakes.

Sightseek 06-28-2007 05:09 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind
I bet the connections of High Heels wish they ran here instead of the useless turf experiment at Churchill. Of course, they could have wheeled her back here. And, why wouldn't Cot Campbell insist that Cotton Blossom returned for this race? She had three weeks since her last.

High Again chose the Iowa Oaks instead of staying home for this race. Makes sense. I hope she runs last in Iowa.
Cotton Blossom is going to Delaware.

Pretty crazy the oaks had so many. The La Troienne had a field of about 10 the next day, which wasn't spectacular in merit, but either are these fillies.

blackthroatedwind 06-28-2007 05:12 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sightseek
Cotton Blossom is going to Delaware.

Pretty crazy the oaks had so many. The La Troienne had a field of about 10 the next day, which wasn't spectacular in merit, but either are these fillies.
Right. The La Troienne was 7 1/2 Furlongs. You mean to tell me none of those horses could run in the Mother Goose?

robfla 06-28-2007 05:15 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by philcski
9th (5:15)
Suburban H. (G1)

1 1/4 Miles | Open | 3 Year Olds And Up Stakes | Purse: $400,000

Post # Horse Jockey Weight Claim Price Equip. Med.
1 Political Force Velasquez C 116
2 Hesanoldsalt Coa E M 117 L
3 Malibu Moonshine Hill C 114 L
4 Corinthian Desormeaux K J 119 L
5 Fairbanks Migliore R 116 L
6 Evening Attire Prado E S 114 L
I'm telling you it's a travesty, a sham, a mockery....it's a traveshamockery!!!

If Invasor was still running this race would have had 3 participants. I heard people saying that with Invasor out of action the G1 Races would have fuller fields and be more competitive. Hardly. - Especially at 1 1/4 on the dirt. I would much rather bet on a twelve horse claiming race than a 4 or 6 horse G1 race. What on earth are the other owners/trainers thinking. There has to be other competitive horses out there somewhere that could use the G1 placing and the $'s

Sightseek 06-28-2007 05:18 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by robfla
I'm telling you it's a travesty, a sham, a mockery....it's a traveshamockery!!!

If Invasor was still running this race would have had 3 participants. I heard people saying that with Invasor out of action the G1 Races would have fuller fields and be more competitive. Hardly. - Especially at 1 1/4 on the dirt. I would much rather bet on a twelve horse claiming race than a 4 or 6 horse G1 race. What on earth are the other owners/trainers thinking. There has to be other competitive horses out there somewhere that could use the G1 placing and the $'s
Personally I hope Evening Attire wins so they have to keep trying with the whole horses. :D It's probably not going to happen, but one can wish.

miles2135 06-28-2007 05:26 PM
Octave is the 2nd best 3yo filly. Do you agree?

robfla 06-28-2007 05:32 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by miles2135
Octave is the 2nd best 3yo filly. Do you agree?
...cotton blossom, christmas kid, and dream rush come to mind not to mention high heels and sealy hill.

not saying that the above horses are better or worse, just saying the race for second best is pretty close

blackthroatedwind 06-28-2007 05:33 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by miles2135
Octave is the 2nd best 3yo filly. Do you agree?

No.

robfla 06-28-2007 05:36 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind
No.
cotton blossom??

blackthroatedwind 06-28-2007 05:40 PM
Magnificence?

Cajungator26 06-28-2007 05:41 PM
I would think that Magnificience would have to be on the list too...


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