well, go figure, since i could have sworn the other day, in an article about jenine sahadi (who hasn't had a positive, makes you wonder how her lit de justice did well) in bloodhorse, said he never had.

So you really think that every horse trainer is either a failure or a cheater?

i know that every sucessful horse trainer does what they can to make thier horses feel better, and that can not be done with hay and oats only, just dont happen. i have worked for trainers that have won triple crown races, breeders cup races, and cheap races at cheap tracks, if it wasnt for veterinarians thier wouldnt be any cheap races at cheap tracks.

The choices are not "Hay and Oats only" or downright cheating.
Your original statement - which was made in the context of a discussion about trainers doing things that were clearly against the rules - was that EVERY trainer that is successful does those things.
I just don't think there is any way you could possibly know that. Have you worked with every successful trainer? You are making a pretty strong accusation, and I don't know what evidence you have to support it. There are undoubtedly trainers out there that meet these three criteria:
1) You haven't worked for/with them.
2) They haven't been caught doing anything against the rules of "doping."
3) They have been at least moderately successful.

You basically just called everyone that meets those three criteria a cheater.
I am simply curious as to what exactly your evidence is for that.

9 out of 10 trainers in this country have had positive tests, and if you think that those were the only times they bent the rules,well go ahead and think it.
all these horses have ailments of some kind or the other at times, all of them. to think giving them an apple fixes those ailments is a fairy tail. go to belmont, santa anita, arlington park etc.... any day of the week and from about 10:30 or so in the morning until 2;00 oclock in the afternoon veterinarians are going in and out of stalls in every shedrow at the track. do you think those veteriarians are in there giving those horses pepermints? or maybe a pep talk? my point is being misunderstood i think, these horses need
medication to heal what ever ails them, what % of horses do you think run on steroids? they are legal, so i guess thats ok? its a very high %. why do you think ny didnt allow lasix? it had nothing to do with what lasix did for a horse it was because lasix masks moraphen based medications. they allow it now because trainers didnt want to run in ny without lasix. i dont know why they fine trainers for positives, they should fine the vets, but they dont want to fine the vets because they dont want to play a cat and mouse game with the trainers to see if they have syringes. the people that constantly complain about trainers that "cheat" need to understand that without bending the rules a whole bunch of these claiming races couldnt fill and thier wouldnt be enough horses to run all these race cards. cant have it both ways

Yes this was a brilliant response.
I distinctly remember making the following claims:
1) Apples fix every horse ailment.
2) I think that every time a trainer bends the rules he gets caught.
3) The only things vets ever give to horses are mints and pep talks.

Now you have cleared all of that up for me.