GR the thing that made it so horrible to me, Is that it was all about Alec, not the language that was horrible (and I have never used anything close to that on my daughter). It was all about how his 11 year old daughter had done this and that to poor Alec. It was one of the most selfish rants I have ever heard.

I got punished with a belt as a kid. It was the only thing I understood at the time, I had no ability to empathize. So my mom saying, "look honey, imagine how it would feel if someone bit your toe off", would mean nothing to me. My little mind did understand pain. You do this, and this is what its gonna feel like made "sense" to me. I understood the consequences of my actions if immediate action was taken. It was like getting your hand crushed in a car door. I never left my hand there again, I had great respect for car doors. I had not the faintest of how someone else might feel... "oh thats bad because think how it would make someone else feel." I needed to feel it for myself. I find it amazing that so many adults dont understand the level of reasoning in young kids. I had no neuronal capacity to empathize at an early age. Is the belt right for all kids? absolutely not. Did it work on me? heck yes. It was the only thing that worked. When I got a little older, I gained the ability to empathize (my butt was thankful), so the more typical of parental reasoning worked. My Dad altered course accordingly. And I never got into any sort of trouble in High School or College and was given a free rein because I was trusted.

I'll take your brother and the points.

I'll take the 300 million and the tax accountant who keeos it.






Lee Travino best line......."Somewhere someguy is tired of ---ing her"

Pgardn, again, what did he call his daughter besides "pig?"

I agree, a small child doesn't get empathy, but this girl is 11 years old; she's not a small child. She's a pre-teen and I know by 11 years old I certainly understood my actions could hurt others. Were you still getting belted at age 11? I certainly wasn't getting spanked at that age anymore. In addition, that court order requiring these phone calls applies not only to Baldwin, but also to her- by turning her phone off, either she or her mother was in violation of a court order. And again, an 11-year-old is old enough to understand if the court says you do something, you do it.

I'm not saying this is all the kid's, or Basinger's fault- Baldwin is a bad-tempered loudmouth who got famous too young, no question (hell, the whole family is weird- check out his God-lovin' brother's "ministry"), but I think he's being crucified in the press over things that frankly, lots of parents have been guilty of doing- losing their tempers with their kids. And I'm sure the kid is messed up by how ugly her parents' divorce was and lashing out- again, something kids all over the country do every day. As I said, I think it's a tempest in a teapot. I mean, even you took it as an opening to ruminate over why liberals aren't saints. Because only saints are saints. Liberals are people, like anyone else, and screw up. And when it's a big deal, they should be taken to task for it. I just don't think this is a big deal.

The two views I gave were not tied together. The other view was about kids in general a punishment, I did not mean these to run together.

And again I say I really dont care if he called her a whore. The fact of the matter is it was all about Alec getting hurt. You dont do that to your kid. "You hurt me so bad you little pig Im going to make you pay for this." Alec cares far more about Alec than his child. This is the main point of that entire tirade. And this is the same crusader for all that is good and against self serving people. I hate the hypocrasy. He cant even live his own ideals. So its much worse than "oh he has a bad temper, oh he goes overboard." The man is a selfish SOB. And he professes to care about other's plights, when all he cares about is himself in a relationship with his daughter. The utter gall of this incident is mind numbing. Sorry I get mad at my daughter but there is no doubt in my mind, or my brother's that our daughters are far more important to us than ourselves.

"You selfish pig, you made me look bad" WTF KIND OF CRAP IS THAT? IT IS INDEFENSIBLE.

kim and alec are the ones who are getting the divorce, it's a shame the child ends up paying the price, and getting the grief, when the two 'adults' can't seem to act like that very thing! regardless of what is going on behind closed doors (i doubt either parent would ever get nominated for sainthood) it's a damn shame that an 11 year old is the one getting all the grief. bad enough she has a parent living on the opposite coast, but it's worse that whatever contact degenerates into tirades from the absent parent.

i do know that basinger is up on charges for not allowing court ordered visits between father and child--but one has to wonder if she doesn't have a valid reason after hearing his eruption. all three should have counseling, and both parents should have their rights, as long as there has been nothing done to cause the loss of any parental rights.

I was 16 years old when I figured out my real name wasn't Stupid.

really? i've told my kids they were lazy before--but aren't all kids?? but pigs? only if they inferred that by me saying their room was a pigpen!!:D

Well, I remember my mom telling me (at age nine- me, not my mom) how much something I had done had mortified her, and it's one of the rants at me that I still remember to this day- it really affected me. And it wasn't how what I had done was bad for me- it was how it shamed her. And it made me feel terrible about what I'd done. So I can't say, though I do in fact think Baldwin is self-centered, that this rant in particular was evil because it was about how his daughter's behavior affected him-- keep everything in a kid's life about how it affects the kid and I think you wind up with an adult who is only interested in how anything in his or her life affects said adult. Sorry, pgardn, we'll have to agree to disagree on this one. I just don't see anything different from what lots of parents do.

I, for one, am shocked that an actor would be so self-centered. HOWEVER, I don't see what the big deal is. It's been known for quite some time that Baldwin and Basinger are batschit insane. Now if the girl was really fat then there would be a problem. She might end up anorexic and/or bulemic but as of right now that's all the rage in Hollywood. She'll be ok.

I missed you, PP. Where ever have you been? :p

I guess I see a whole bunch of diff. types of parents than you. My sister stayed out late one night and my Dad said he was worried sick. That he had paced the hallway all night because he was worried about HER. It made a huge impression on my sister because she realized how much she was loved, she in turn was worried about him worrying so much. Its Love.
I have listened to the Baldwin rant well over 10 times now, and if this is how the majority of parents reason with their 11 year olds (you make ME look bad, this is the last time you will humiliate ME) we are in trouble as a nation.

This 11 year old, I wish the best for her. Her parents have put her in a world of deprivation of a whole different kind.

I agree that the kid will come out the worst in this (as many kids of divorce do- my husband has had his own issues from his parents' divorce when he was 13), but again, we don't know what she did or didn't do in this- whether she made the choice to avoid his call and for what reason. A court order is a court order. And I say again, kids can be jerks too. (Some of them grow out of it and some grow into jerky adults.) We just don't know the dynamics of their relationship.

Really, in the end, I was most alarmed that he didn't seem to know how old his kid was. Though I remember my grandfather randomly calling out the names of his sons until the one he wanted would turn his head. ;)

Pgardn,
Lots of interesting ideas are in this thread. I've avoided saying mine.
You're correct on this, about letting children know how much they are loved.
And, right...parents worry.
Now, my take that I heard somewhere, and needed to be reminded during a very bitter divorce with my ex (thank God!), "Divorcing parents are allowed to hate each other as much as they feel the need, but putting that on the child (children) is not the appropriate target."
Some might be better off showing their hatred a little less, and their love a little more.

You've got that right. I remember when my wife got her first teaching job. She used to come home mortified at the 1st grader's mouths and attitude. Zero respect for adults and a trashy mouth to back it up. She'd tell the parents in their conferences and the parents would just shrug it off and act like it was no big deal that their kid was cursing at the teacher in 1st grade.

It all starts at the top, this girl probably has no chance at a normal life. Her whackadoo parents are going to make sure of that, but let's not assume the child is 100% innocent in this deal. Kids her age are perfectly capable of being quite cruel to their parents.

I missed you too, Cajun. Had a 3 day vacation and now i'm making moves in lewlville. Crazy time of year. :D

Alec is going to be on The View tomorrow. Supposedly to express himself and talk about parental rights, etc...

It will be interesting to see what he has to say.

well, he oughtta fit right in. can't believe that bitch-fest is still on the air.