Derby Trail Forums - No Derby for Hard Spun ???

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

I think Larry is a very good trainer but it is hard to believe that he is waffling so much therefore I am putting most of the blame on Porter. I mean unless there is a physical problem that we dont know about why would they want to pass on the Derby in a year where the firld has so many question marks? I know Porter has a presence in the mid atlanic region but the Preakness is a consolation prize except to the Derby winner. They talk so much about a specific surface that this horse handles or does not handle as though they can "manage" that part of the scenario. Like it was stated before, the surface Derby Day usually has no relation to the one that is used for training a month before.

I do too. One of the most underrated in the nation.

I've got a new theory... if they waffle enough, the future book odds will go up! Yeah, that's it!

Quote:

Originally Posted by philcski

... if they waffle enough

Another Belgium crack. Very funny.

Quote:

Originally Posted by cmorioles

Another Belgium crack. Very funny.

I have a question about his horse. Did anyone see his lead change or lack of change in the Lanes End? I know I didnt see the entire stretch run clearly but he looked to be on the wrong foot at the end. Someone else mentioned that he was on the wrong foot on the turn. Does anyone have a more definitive opinion?

I ask because I am wondering if there could be some sort of foot issue here..

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kasept

What in the hell is Porter talking about? What similiarities between Oaklawn's and Churchill's surfaces? And who's doing all this talking about it? If they're so concerned about their 'well thought out plan' and the Preakness is the goal, ship to Pimlico and 'test' its' surface. Good grief. No outfit does more hand-wringing and teeth-gnashing than Fox Hill. It's unbelievable.

i was thinking the same thing--this is the first comparison i've ever seen between oaklawn and churchill, and is news to me.
of course there are horses who don't care for a particular surface...but hard spun had a bullet work at oaklawn, if he works well at churchill-how will they know if he likes it or not? after all, he supposedly didn't like oaklawn, but seemed to train well there.

after the fla derby hes nutz not to take a shot...

Quote:

Originally Posted by easy goer

I don't think there is a foot issue at all. I agree with this being a crock as well. The one thing that makes this one so hard to understand is the owner's desire to be a major player or known as a major player....Which is one reason why he continues to run Round Pond in spite of her issues. This makes absolutely no sense at all. Especially after the Southwest at Oaklawn. All they did from the time Jones shipped the string there was rave about how Hard Spun loved the track and was training the best he ever had. Then you throw in an outside post, 4 wide the whole way, an up the track 4th and he now hates the surface. If it pans out and they say he doesn't like the surface and they skip the Derby, then I am absolutely convinced that they think they have a nice stakes horse on their hands and can win some races with him if they carefully pick and choose the spots where they enter him. So they avoid getting beat up in the Derby and go into a shorter Preakness fresh. I feel pretty certain on one thing.....if this is a possibility, Jones must be stomping all over that ten gallon right about now, because I'm pretty sure this is/was not his decision. His chance could be walking out Greed's door.

Ok, I just read the DRF and Bloodhorse articles. This makes no sense.

I understand all the different opinions that you fans have and I think it is great that you understand enough about top level thoroughbred racing to voice those opinions. It is my dream to run in the Kentucky Derby, just like most owners. I ran "Shammy Davis" in the 1997 Kentucky Derby shortly after I entered the business. Nick Zito was training for me at the time. Looking back, it was a foolish move but I was not experienced enough to tell Nick that I felt we weren't ready for that competition. We beat one horse. I said I would never run in the Derby again or any other graded stake unless I felt we belonged and felt we had a good chance of winning.
Managing Hard Spun is a more complicated process than most people realize. You have to manage with your head and not with your heart. Larry and my hearts say run in the Kentucky Derby. We are trying to see if we would be running with a "handicap" in the derby. It is hard enough to win the biggest race of the year without a handicap. If Hard Spun handles Churchill like he did Oaklawn, he would be at a serious disadvantage. Why compete in that huge race if we are starting behind the eight ball. I was lucky enough to win a Breeders' Cup race last year and a Kentucky Derby trophy would be the most fantastic highlight of my racing life.
Therefore, we are being more cautious and thorough in mapping out his next couple of races. Not many trainers would interrupt their schedule to take Hard Spun to Churchill for four days to evaluate the way he acclimates to the track. I am very lucky that Larry is willing and enthusiastic about doing it. Larry will be galloping Hard Spun which gives us more insight into how he is handling the track. He loves the idea. By Tuesday, when Mario works him, Larry will know if we are at a severe disadvantage at Churchill or not. He may handle it like all the other tracks except Oaklawn. Remember, he loved Delaware, Fair Hill, Philadelphia, the Fairgrounds and Turfway. At least, we will know where we stand. We can then make a very intelligent decision about his next couple races. It's a long year and although I would love nothing more than to run well in the Kentucky Derby, I don't want to jeopardize his career over my ego concerning the derby.
I hope you all understand now and believe me, this is not about money. The triple crown is somewhat like a chess game if you have a top contender. There are a lot of very sharp trainers with strong horses wanting the same result we all want. By 9 AM Tuesday, I can tell you a lot more about where we stand from an intelligent position.Trust me, Larry and I want to run in the Kentucky Derby. We just don't want to try the impossible if he handles Churchill like he did Oaklawn.

Rick

all indications from hard spun before his loss at oaklawn showed he liked the track...going back through the bloodhorse articles, you see his work in .59, another mention in another article says:Second, he has the benefit of a great workout from behind two stable mates on Feb. 7 (five furlongs in 1:00.60, fastest of 51). Third, his overall workouts at Oaklawn show he likes the track.
so, if he works well, like he did at oaklawn, how will you know if he likes the track or not?
isn't it possible that the 'common cold' he had, that kept him from going to the risen star, may have been the culprit in his first loss, not a track that he seemed to handle just fine in the mornings?

i appreciate you posting, and explaining....anything that would shed light is great.
i love hard spun, and have been watching him all year-i hope you guys find that he is indeed a 'derby horse'. best of luck to you with him.

2 words about Hard Spun....BROKE DOWN

Quote:

Originally Posted by JDank34

2 words about Hard Spun....BROKE DOWN

what is that supposed to mean??