I've argued for years that the Beyer on the Count Fleet was flat out wrong. They can't necessarily be taken at face value, you know that.

I've argued for years that the 2004 Kentucky Derby is a complete throw out due to the hurricane like rain that hit Churchill less than an hour before the race. That race can't necessarily be taken at face value, you know that.

No argument against that, completely agre. Was the equivalent of this year's BC. Still... the two best probably ran 1-2. Maybe Birdstone or the Cliff's Edge gets a piece if it's dry instead of Imperialism, and perhaps the race is a little faster against the clock (which, to be fair, was a pretty fabricated Beyer, as it had to be.)

How about Dance Smartly, she would be the only one undefeated as a 3 yr old on the list.

I like that inclusion, even if she wasn't necessarily amongst the FASTEST 25. In terms of accomplishments, a Cdn TC, BC Distaff, and 4 other stakes is pretty impressive.

Groovy absolutely did flop bigger IMO. The first year, he failed to hit the board at odds-on in a nine-horse field. The second year, he got outrun to the front again and again, lost at odds-on. That was the deal with him. No lead, no win. I don't get why it's unfortunate luck for Groovy having had to come to CA in successive years but it's not for Fog having to go to NY after flying back and forth across the country 13 times in one year. Groovy, like Fog, was a fringe contender for HOY in 1987 and he lost. I understand that Groovy ran some outstanding races outside of the BC. So did Fog. In fact, because of Groovy going 130+ in back to back races, that makes his flops even bigger.

Housebuster was good. I'm not saying he wasn't. Personally, I thought of him more as a brilliant miler than a brilliant sprinter. I know he lost to Unbridled in Florida in a sprint. He beat Black Tie Affair in the Carter and lost to him in the Commonwealth. What do BTA and Unbridled have in common? They were BC Classic winners and neither would be confused with the top sprinters over the years. He beat Clevor Trevor a couple of times, in the DeFrancis and the Forego. Clevor Trevor was another more known for his exploits at distances beyond 8f. The DeFrancis was a great race for him and showed he was a top class sprinter without a doubt. He beat Safely Kept in that race. I always felt though that the 1990 Met Mile was his best race.

Black Tie Affair was third in the BC Sprint.....right?

Groovy ran credibly in the BC Sprint at SA when he was " off the board " but still finished a pretty close 4th. When second the following year he lost to a horse, Very Subtle, who I believe you earlier referred to as a pretty special horse ( I happen to agree with that ). Lost in the Fog got absolutely drowned at Belmont in the BC Sprint in the only time he faced a tough field. Groovy beat the mighty Turkoman, at 7F no less, as a 3YO in the Forego at Saratoga. This was following a campaign so ridiculous that he even raced in the Kentucky Derby a few months earlier.

By your own admittance you didn't follow racing that closely in 1986. Unless you did, and I am mistaken, you might want to find Groovy's lifetime pps before you dissect him too extensively. I don't disagree, necessarily, with you that he was a need the lead type. But I think if you saw all the BS he went through in his storied career you would have, at least, a slightly different opinion of him overall.

Not to mention she raced against the colts 4 times that year including the Molson Million, no doubt if we are to include other fillies as Xtra Heat, Serena's Song, Winning Colors, and Go For Wand on the list, I agree she fits the bill also.

You're right... she should have been included.

Not even pedigree snobs can compete with BSF snobs...

In your sort of desperate attempt to do God knows what you are completely missing the point.

The Beyers are just a reasonable way to compare horses that never had a chance to race against each other for whatever reason. I have no problem if anyone wants to use other speed figures, and surely there are some that others use here, but the Beyers are the most accessable.....and therefore easiest to use for comparison purposes here. That's all. We are just trying to compare horses.

The agenda here is by you to discredit something you don't understand. Nobody here is promoting Beyer figures.

13 pages and the most obvious horse of all hasn't even been mentioned...




























































lol lol lol

I love that quote from Warren Buffett...

What about adding Medaglia D'oro to the list...

I'm running out of space. :D

I think my list needs a revision. :o

Best Euro 3yos.

Dalakhani
Sinndar
Rock of Gibraltar
High Chapparal
Peintre Celebre
Dubai Millennium
Russian Rhythm
Ouija Board

What about Giants Causeway and Galileo?

nashwan was a pretty useful 3yo.

For the Dubai Millenium lovers

http://youtube.com/watch?v=Td5YxLIaxqs