Let's investigate the stench more closely...Cleveland style. Had 5 more personal fouls than field goals. Shot 37 percent....19 percent from 3 point...5 for 26. It really is amazing that people were giving Orlando no shot this series. Orlando played poorly tonight and Cleveland never threatened them in the 2nd half. OH well, the INdians are only 9 games back on Memorial Day. We turn our losing eyes to them now.

The only advantage Cleveland had in this series was home court advantage. They played great in game 1 and lost a hearbreaker. It's not Earnest Byner fumbling but it is 5 more personal fouls than field goals in a huge conference final playoff game. (byner fumbling was overrated. They just would have lost in overtime regardless...as they did the previous year.) I'm not seeing much difference in this game and the Byner fumble. the Byner fumble was the penultimate game as this is the penultimate series. Again, losing this series is better for me. It would be much worse to lose game 7 of the finals at home which would happen.

I'm fine. It's simply standard operating procedure. Anything else would be more shocking than simply more losses. Believe it or not, this was the best game they have played in Orlando this year. They weren't really threatening to win, but it wasn't a complete blowout either like the other two.

LOL.

Ariza is shooting 51% from three point land and 55% from the field while making two decisive plays to help win games.

West is shooting 40% from the field and 33% from three point land and has been insignificant on the offensive end in this series.

You are a silly, stubborn man that loses a ton of credibility by sticking with these hopeless positions.

what say you on the bets...i need more money!

LOL. what is your opinion of trevor ariza? are he and delonte west on the same level as offensive players?

I don't follow the Lakers. They are meaningless to me as is that series. Delonte gave my 4 kids autographs in Salt Lake this year with a broken wrist at the time. He was somewhat understandable as well. I have a soft spot for the guy. So it is unfair to ask me comparisons. I think West plays well. Ariza has looked better in the conference finals without question however. Ariza has played better in the conference finals. over the whole season I have no clue what Ariza does.

Goodness. I looked at the Lakers season stats, and I think it would be idiotic to compare their stats. Of course West plays more minutes so of course his scoring would be more....but their field goal pct was the same and West was far, far higher in 3 pt and free throw percentage. I would say Ariza is just having a good series is all. West not so much so far.

He has played better. Only cannon would deny that. I think they are about equal just with different roles. West is playing better defense now than he did when Gilbert use to torch him. He has played very well against turk although they are giving him a lot of help. Ariza has picked it up against carmello and i dont think anyone would confuse turk with as being as tough a cover as melo.

Overall, they are both role players with no real advantage overall.

Interesting about the minutes. Despite playing ten more minutes per game, he averaged less than 3 points more and fewere steals, rebounds and blocks!

West is better. But Ariza is simply playing better offense THIS series, mainly I think because Denver is not a good defensive team...Orlando is. I mean you can bend stats any way you want them. Wallace and Varejao shot 75 percent combined tonight. That doesn't mean they are good shooters as all 3 shots they made were layups. And you don't want them taking 25 shots combined a game. You still want all your shots coming from James, WEst, Williams, Ilgauskas regardless of whether they are making them or missing them.

but to take this one series and state flat out Ariza is better is ridiculous.

Ariza's taking more shots per minutes. Who cares? Delonte West is a 6'3" guard, how many blocks is he supposed to get??

I didnt say he was better. I said they were about the same player.

Ariza is a 6'8" forward, West is a 6'3" guard. What are you talking about they are the same player??

Meaning they are both going to give about the same contribution overall if in different ways. Both are good defenders. Both are relied upon in their respective offenses as spot up shooters. Both will give you around 10 points per game. Delonte is better off the dribble and in the half court, Ariza fills the lane on the break much better.

Look at stats for the entire playoffs. Virtually the same and i think houston and utah play better defense than detroit and atlanta at this point.

Utah plays zero defense. I would not contend they play better defense than Atlanta. That is just silly claiming Utah plays better defense than Atlanta.

detroit and atlanta are 11th and 12th in defensive efficiency respectively. Utah was 14th...houston was 7th.

edit* remember also that Utah's best interior defender was out for a good part of the year. At wing, brewer and kirilenko would be the matchup and both are good defenders.

Don't forget also...West broke his wrist and his offensive stats went down steadily upon his return working back into the rotation and offensive flow. This did happen.

It's pretty much arguing about nothing. I don't really care. It's depressing enough regardless of whom is better between Ariza and West. I honestly don't give a rat's ass who is better. The Cavs are in massive trouble. They got the poor shooting effort from the Magic I felt they needed to steal one in Orlando...they didn't take advantage. It's depressing. This side argument is meaningless.

Okay, and Phil Jackson experimented with a million different rotations to begin the season and Ariza's role wasnt defined until the second half of the year.

Im not talking about all of that though. I am talking about what they are...now...in these playoffs.

West has been a decent offensive role player that has played good defense. Ariza has done basically the same thing.

How is this debatable? Im not saying Ariza is better. Im just saying in terms of "value" they are about the same player.

This thread has taken a bad turn. Really, a Delonte West vs. Trevor Ariza debate? Really?

exactly. thats what i said a while ago. they are about the same player. no?

Very much so. Just like about 100 other guys.

exactly.

Okay. better subject.

The cavs don't have a single player that can score in the post. I dont remember a team that would be considered a viable contender lacking such a traditionally important component to an offense.

"T"

"A"

"M"

"E"

"Like....I'm sayin'....My tame is good, man!!"

Speak for yourself. :)

This Andersen kid is really something. The recovery stuff is heart warming but this mother is a bad ass on the boards. Denver has some real characters on this team....

Trevor Ariza
3 points
1 rebound
1 assist
26 minutes

hell Radmanovic could have done that!

Trevor Ariza game 1

20 points
3 rebounds
4 steals
2 assists
6-7 from the field.

One game.

See other thread :)

"Ariza" seems so much like a brand name for a food product(artificial sweetener,cooking oil etc.,) or a chain of weight-loss centers. In other words, it sounds made up.

He is an imposter

Yea, no telling what ESPN would find out if they conduct one of their famous "CLOSER LOOKS."

Ok.
So maybe Denver does not need Anthony.


Is it wise for Denver players to chicken walk
after hitting a three...

Denver seems to me on the verge of exploding.
They are trying so hard to keep the thug play
down, but its steaming to the surface.

Is it smart to do a look back trip on Kobe
when he is going full steam to the basket...

Is it wise to push Kobe in the back with two hands
when he is going full steam to the basket...

Jump Shooter LeBron = 0 championships.

And lets face it the guy is a moron so he's not going to change the way he plays the game.

I guess we have to add Reggie Miller and Kenny Smith to the group that says Lebron isnt guarding rafer alston. Its either that or he CANT guard him. Rafer Alston had 26 points tonight and 18 the night before. This is one of the worst point guards in the NBA...a guy that was given away midseason by another playoff team for a backup.

I love being vindicated. :)

Always a pleasure to hear from perhaps the only perfect human being ever to live.

Fine, do you really want this explained to you?? It is not rocket science. The simple difference maker in this series is Mo Williams. The Cavs were so devoid of talent, he was considered the final piece to aid LeBron. LeBron's Pippen. To compare a guy like Mo Williams to Pippen is absurd but it is what it is. He had a great regular season shooting 47 percent and was a 44 percent 3 point shooter.

This series, their 2nd best player is shooting 23 for 71...32 percent and 6 for 27 from 3...22 percent (and one of those made 3s was a 65 footer...take that one away and the 44 percent season 3 point shooter is shooting under 20 percent this series.). That's it. That is what is wrong. For them to be playing every game to the wire with their number 2 guy doing pretty much zero speaks to just how well LeBron is playing this series. To have your number 2 scorer and one of the best 3 point shooters in the league shooting half of his 82 game 3 point percentage is not a recipe for Cavalier playoff success. LeBron did turn the ball over a ton in game 4 late which certainly played a role in the loss, but the biggest problem this series has been Mo Williams. He's a poor defensive player. His singular purpose is to be the complementary offensive player for LeBron and he performed that role tremendously in the regular season. And to say LeBron is not getting him the ball would be a gross mis-statement. Mo is getting 18 shots a game this series....7 threes a game. He is what has killed them this series. Then he goes and shoots his mouth off making guarantees trying to ignite something and he goes out and shoots his obligatory 5 for 15 and 0 for 3 from three point range. He was beyond depressed after the game, he knows it is all on him. He is the problem so far.

LeBron series shooting 56 for 110, 51 percent....rest of team 90 of 220, 41 percent. 3 point series shooting. LeBron 9 for 27, 33 percent. Rest of team 15 for 65, 23 percent. Magic shooting 43 percent from 3 this series. Cleveland 26 percent. Cleveland was a better shooting 3 point team than Orlando this year. 39 percent to 38 percent. So basically what you have is one of the top 3 three point shooting teams in the league shooting terribly. LeBron is the only one shooting close to his season percentage from long range. They're a JUMP SHOOTING team. That's what they became this year. They improved their offense by leaps and bounds. That's why they went from a 45 to 50 win regular season team to a 66 win team this year. They are simply not shooting well this series. Whether that's Orlando's defense is debatable. I've seen them miss numerous wide open looks...I mean wide open. They're not shooting this series. Mo Williams is the biggest cuplrit. Not jump shooting LeBron. Those are the facts. Facts are always debatable however when you are dealing with perfect human beings but I did my best. I know what's going on this series. I was the only person on this thread in mid April to pick Orlando to reach the finals. I know how Cleveland plays against them. They struggle. They are actually playing Orlando much better this series than they did in the regular season or the last 3 years. In all honestly, despite my whining and crying, Orlando is lucky to be up 3-1, but they are. As poorly as Cleveland is shooting from long range, and as great as Orlando is shooting from long range, cleveland had legitimate chances to win 3 of the 4 games this series.

Thanks for your help though. None of us...me, LeBron, nor Mo will ever reach perfection as you have. Sorry. Back to regularly scheduled programming.

In the first half Lebron was guarding Alston at one point. I heard them say it on the darn tv.

You just couldnt tell cause Alston was wide open the whole game it looked like nobody was guarding him.

Thats exactly what i have been saying the whole thread. Lebron is playing a one man zone. Orlando has made significant adjustments to attack that defense and now alston looks like he is actually a player instead of a bum that was picked up midseason for garbage.

Alston actually drove right past lebron a couple of times when he was standing in front of him (i wouldnt call it guarding him).

So its either Lebron can't guard him or he isnt guarding him. There is no other way Rafer Alston scores 26 points in a playoff game or even the 18 the game before.