If Quality Road and Rachel "All options are open" Alexandra were in last year's Traver's and JCGC, and yes QR was we know that, they both would have finished behind Summer Bird, and yet both would still be regarded higher than Zenyatta on Derbytrail. :zz:

If there ever were an unreachable bar.

I always love this. Rachel dusted Summer Bird at Monmouth, but it's a freakin' certainty to the Zentologists that she would've lost to him had they faced again. And how all of this validates Zenyatta, I still don't understand.

So you're allowing that QR is better than Zenyatta and will win HOY over her then?

QR is faster no doubt, especially this year. Though it seems like the best bet to beat him would be to have a very fresh horse at 10 furlongs, not exactly many places to make that happen. From that standpoint it makes some sense what they are doing with Z.

I also think its a bit selfish, they want to race her where they live, have already shipped once, and will ship again. I also think there is a lot of pressure from the tracks to support cal racing.

I am not saying its what I would do with the horse, just trying to present both sides of the argument.

No one said that but this isn't a horse of the year type campaign which is a shame because she very well may be the best horse in training. They want her to be horse of the year and on a sidenote beat RA. They aren't really accomplishing either by continuing the cupcake schedule.

This is always the one absolute Rachelites like to hang their hats on, if you want to continue to hullicinate that Summer Bird ran his best race that day to be life and death to hold off the slightly better than mediocre sprinter Munnings for second then I can't help you. Rachel would have been dusted in the Travers and JCGC if they weren't afraid of the competition past Sept 5. Well judging by this year's actions the connections are still afraid. Par for the course.

The hypocrisy of this post is unfathomable. Your heroes won't even take on Rail Trip in their own backyard and Rachel has the chickenshit connections?

No one's hanging their hat on anything, but the point is, in their one meeting, Rachel crushed Summer Bird. Period. What you have is the results of a bunch of imaginary races run in your mind. You still haven't explained how Summer Bird winning or losing against Rachel validates Zenyatta.

so did zenyatta

Right, but am I the one saying that in another million different races, Summer Bird would've beaten Zenyatta every time? The Zenyattard above is the one who brought up Summer Bird, not me.

I don't think I will have to validate anything, Rachel is doing that for herself. All I am saying is you guys put her on a level of one of the best of all time, I don't have to look up posts, but that was the sentiment here last summer. The fact is she is showing that assessment was grossly overstated. For the record I never said she was a mediocre horse, but have stated she was very good on many occasions. Given her performances in the Woodward and 2 races this year, I think I have been correct. But she certainly doesn't belong on the pedestal that some placed her on last year, curiously some of those posters have dissapeared.

She had a remarkable year, and a far more impressive one than Zenyatta did. Nothing that happens this year changes that. I don't understand why you seem to think that Rachel's two narrow missteps this year invalidate what happened last season. You're either disingenuous or not very smart if that's your contention.

Her Woodward was outstanding, and anybody who watches racing at Saratoga will attest to that. Stop, for a second, worrying about what was behind her, and instead realize the kind of pace she was forced through before having to hold off a perfect-trip older male who was clearly better in '09 than he is this year.

I don't want to get into the she will improve at age 4 bravado that was evident prior to her 1st start this year, and now it is convenient to say let's not compare last year to this year. Horses are judged on their career, I never like to look at one race, one year, and say this horse is the greatest thing since sliced bread when the most notable race she won was what she faced in the Woodward, if she had gone on and run in the JCGC or BC, I may feel differently. So my question to you is what absolves her from criticism of not running in one of those races and why is it alright to criticize another?

god who gives a fck anymore.

She had a taxing campaign, taking on the boys and older horses multiple times, shipping to multiple states and no one with a good dirt horse is too keen on running on a crap surface in a race that people like you wrongly determine the be-all end-all. I wouldn't have run her in the BC either. She'd already had a remarkable campaign, dancing every dance, while Zenyatta had a complete yawner of a year before deciding to take a slight step up at the very end. The HOY vote reflected the respective ambition and accomplishment of their campaigns.

Zenyatta has done everything she's slated to do this year. Multiple times. The only notable thing she could possibly accomplish is winning the Classic at Churchill, and even then, it'll be disappointing that they didn't showcase her on dirt or against top competition or out of her backyard more often. They're being chickenshit and boring with this campaign. Again. Rachel isn't facing monsters this year either, but at least they have the excuse of losing two races this year. Zenyatta is coming off of 17 straight wins and they still aren't even willing to face the top male in their state. It's embarrassing.

Dude, this is not about Rachel. This is about where Zenyatta is running this year. For all the people who thought she backhanded at the Eclipse Awards dinner, this year was supposed to vindicate her.

If you can't use Rachel, you use Quality Road, if you can't use Quality Road, you use shipping Quality Road, if you can't use shipping Quality Road, you use Chuck's two horses who didn't ship over the Rockies, if you can't use Chuck's two horses who didn't ship over the Rockies, you bring-up china dolls, if you can't use China Dolls, you use Summer Bird etc. It's nauseating.

Guess what? This is NOT ABOUT Quality Road, China Dolls, Summer Bird, The Rockies, the Alps, Mt. Everest or anything else. This is about where Zenyatta is running right now.

Unfortunately, she is NOT the leader for Horse of the Year, even though she probably should be. This was supposed to be her year where she struts her stuff.

Unfortunately for her, much like last year, another horse is out-working her up to this point (through not fault of her own).

If this is about getting her to peak at the BC, that's fine, but don't come crying when the voters say again, "Hey, this is Horse of the Year, not Horse of the Race."

Oh my gawd

Hey man, if you anit CHEATIN, then you aint tryin!

Amen Brother, Iam a westcoast fan of Zenyatta, but they have a chance to bring her game to any race track in the country and they have not done it.

As stated multiple times, I am not disputing HOY, again for the 157th time I am fine with her winning it. Fact is it means less to me than for others, so for my sake, anyone who brings this up with me. I don't care about HOY 2009 or 2010. What wasn't answered for me is how good or great she was, I formed an opinion that the jury wasn't even close to being closed on her. Some put a seal on it and slamdunked her greatness. She may have been all the things you state, tired, wiped out..ect..I will accept that. I saw it as ducking. Regardless, we still don't have a clear consensus, I am just glad she returned to racing this year, otherwise she may still be up on that pedestal.

Blame Atsteamstupid, I didn't bring it up first. If you read my reply beginning with Cannonball, it was 100% on topic.

Nope, sorry. It was 10 pnt move up who first invoked Rachel, followed by you, then me. As always, it was a Zenyatta fan who brought up the other one. Inferiority complex much?