Don't you ever get off it?


He IS bad defensively...watch him fer Gosh sakes...he's bad mainly because of all the balls he can't get to. ...and you're not exactly quoting huge offensive numbers there. SS is a DEFENSIVE position...the most important one in fair territory. The Indians don't understand that and neither do you.

And where the fucl< do you get ''at worst"????



That's his BEST over the last 2 years and the rate he is going this year!!

HE gets to plenty of balls and has a very good arm. His assists, putouts, DPs are in the upper tier every single year. He simply is not a bad defensive player. You are like the LeBron witnesses...they see no wrong...there are Peralta witnesses who have taken to the theory that he is the worst defensive player ever and it simply is not true...or even close to that...the same thing you criticize witnesses for you do EXACTLY the same thing with Peralta. He made an excellent defensive play in the 9th inning of a tie game and it played a key part in a win. Your response to that?? you don't have a TV...excellent. Yet somehow you watch him play. Of course I always lie so what I said couldn't be true. Would Cabrera be a better defensive player there...of course. I think you lose a lot more offense with Barfield instead of Peralta than defense playing Cabrera at short and Barfield at 2nd. IN other words, I think you're losing more offense than what you may be gaining defensively with Barfield at 2nd and Cabrera at short. The Indians had the best record in baseball last year with Peralta playing short. They really did. So his defense cost them what??? Who was their best hitter in post season last year??

Exactly.

That's simply an opinion. I'm averaging his last THREE years. You conveniently ignore 2005 which is fine if you want to do that.

In other words he's getting WORSE!

You act like he won the fucl<in' triple crown in '05.



You are truly the idiot you purport to be here.Many,many,many people ( writers included) think Peralta is a bad defensive ss ....a BAD defensive ss. He cannot get to balls a good ss would get to. He fogs out upstairs.....he does have a strong arm and turns the dp well....but HE HAS NO RANGE.



HE HAS NO RANGE......and he will not charge ground balls....he backs up on them and turns out into hits or errors.

You really are the biggest imbecile I have ever met.


Unbelieveable.

Your arguments are pathetic..they really are.



Why did they do so poorly in '06 then? He was the ss...right?


EXACTLY.

They got as far as they did because of their pitching last year.When it went south...so did the Indians.The hitting was bad the last third of the year...it continues now,although the pitching looks like it just may well be as good as last year.

They had a chance to tighten up the defense and they just won't do it.

I'm wondering if BrownSugar has one of those false bottom horsey caskets ??

Fine. Your'e all wrong. He is not bad. He is at worst an average defensive shortstop. You have never met me sir. I'm simply the biggest imbecile you've ever read on an internet board. Let's not get carried away here.

My point being his defense is not the determining factor in their winning or losing. This post just supports everything I've said. Thank you. they had great pitching in 2005 and nearly made post season. The bullpen was wretched in 2006 and they lost, their pitching was great last year and they were in the playoffs.

In essence, Peralta's defense really plays no part in anything...it doesn't really hurt or help them at all...(despite the terrific play in the 9th yesterday!!) Which is what I've been saying all along. Thank you for finally agreeing with me here. At last.

Fair enough....but you do upset me , and that is hard to do, when you tell me the emperor is clothed.

To say Here'sJhonny is at worst an average defensive ss,in your opinion........well I'm not going to say it,but I will make a prediction.



SOMEONE is going to wake up...and it may not be Shapiro or "Wedgie" ...and they will get this guy out of the position located between 2nd and 3rd or ship him out of here and Cabrera will be the ss.



I do think it will be before next season starts.




I'm going to end the HJ back and forth now and leave it at that.

I like the kid and have from day one. He is what he is. He was replacing a legend...a near impossible task and in 2005 he had a great year and played a huge part in their return to respectability. Shapiro made him the scapegoat of the poor 2006 season which I thought was insane. IT was apparent to even an imebcile like me the problem was the bullpen without question...not Peralta's D. You can find zone charts...zone ranking percentages whatever you want. He was scapegoated by management, they alledgedly got him glasses and crap and made it seem how much he improved last year. He didn't. He was the same as he ever was. He hit better in 2007 without question, but his defense is what it is. His range is not great at all but is better than the Yankees legend currently playing there, and he seems to do ok for the most part.

I have never heard Peralta say one word...cause one problem on the team ever. He never complains. He just goes and plays. He is an easy guy for me to root for. I dont' like to see guys scapegoated as he was after the 2006 season unfairly. He is not a great player and never will be. He has many weaknesses...he can not hold up on 2 strike breaking pitches low and outside...his range isn't great as noted. But he has good power...is a fairly patient hitter seeing plenty of pitches per at bat, and turns the DP with aplomb. HE's just an easy guy for me to like...sort of like Sizemore who also has plenty of weaknesses but people tend to ignore those...he can go get fly balls, but has a poor arm...he also strikes out a ton and doesn't hit for a high average like Peralta...Grady does walk an absolute ton making up for his high K totals. But he also just goes and plays and give 115 percent 162 games a year. Also an easy guy to like.

But PEralta's defensive weakness legend is beyond crazy. He will never win a gold glove...but come on...are you guys serious??

I am a fan of the INdians. I like Peralta. Sue me.

IN the end I think it will happen in the off season. Blake is done after this year...he has priced himself out of Clveland. It will be quite easy to then put Peralta at third, and Cabrera at short and see if Barfield has any offensive skills left. It will not happen this year unless they are completely out of it.

Balls gotten to by shortstops....(putouts plus assists divided by innings played). Peralta's American League rankings...

2005...6th
2006...1st
2007...2nd
2008...4th.

God.


Blake has not priced himself out...Blake has not priced himself out.

The Indians signed him to one year.It was their choice...not his. The Indians have priced him out.He shouldn't be there now,but thanks to the Phillips debacle they still keep compounding that huge boneheaded move.

I'm not going to read your reply for a long time because I know it's going to be dumb.


Honest...I can't take you anymore!

In essence here is what Peralta costs them. Zone rating is the pre-eminent stat used now. It is percentage of balls successfully fielded in the shortstop range. Peralta is always at or near the bottom in that stat. He was quite good in 2005. He hovers right at 80 percent for 3 years now though. That is not good. Generally in a full season 85 percent is a great number for a shortstop. The last 4 years under 10 per year in MLB reach that number. 5 to 8 is the total of full time shortstops per year get to that number. Occasionally you'll get a guy near 90 percent (Vizquel, everett, Tulowitski...), but lets call 85 percent a standard for a guy with excellent range.

Generally the Indians get 460 balls or therabouts in the shortstop's ground ball range. This means Peralta gets to about 370 of them. A shortstop in the 85 percent range if they had that would get to around 390 of them per year. So in a full year the difference between a shortstop with great range and Peralta is 20 base runners per year. How many of those score?? About 40 percent of base runners score in the major leagues...I'll be generous and call it that for you. It is generally under that, but for easy math I'll call it 40 percent. So 8 of those 20 extra base runners will score. How many of those 8 runs scored will come in 1 run losses costing them a game?? I'll be very generous and call it 20 percent...meaning at most 1.6 of those extra base runners will cost them a game.

So in essence the difference between Peralta at short, and one of the best in the league at short is 1 or 2 games a year Peralta's D costs them which is how they can win 96 games with a poor range shortstop playing for them. Which is how the Yankees are in post season year after year with a similarly poor range shortstop. It really in all honesty doesn't mean much at all. This takes nothing into account of offense, 2 out hitting etc.

Math...study...investigate...consider. It is not all about bombast. Bombast on internet boards doesnt' decide baseball games. Playing them does. A shortstop zone range of 60 percent costs you...70 percent costs you. 80 percent??? Really doesn't cost you all that much. It does cost, but it is so minimal that generally it means nothing. If the Indians miss the playoffs by 1 game ever, then you can talk about Peralta's D costing them (in '05 Peralta was at around 85 percent so no...he was near the top in MLB that year...didn't cost them a playoff appearance!!...he has fallen considerably from that the last 3 years however, so his 80 percent seasons resulted in nowhere near playoffs and actual playoffs). Until they finish 1 game out of a playoff birth, Peralta's D means pretty much zero in the grand scheme of INdians baseball. Your bombast is meaningless in reality.

Mathematics my friend. Simple concepts. It ain't brain surgery.

So Avery, even using the absolute worst statistic Peralta has at shortstop...the dreaded zone rating...he costs them one game a year on defense. I am accepting his badness at defense and using what he is worst at on defense...range. And it all adds up to a game. You're the man!! Your points are nearly flawless as always it appears!!

(I'm so good I scare myself!! OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!)

Whatever...my point was he ain't playing for them next year. OK??

No..that was my point.


And it was my point that someone will finally realize they need and have a better defensive player there.

For all your ridiculous mathematical models you have the audacity to agree with me.



I forgot my promise and read your recent mess.









Beyond words.

Mr. HorseOffCourse,sir.




You may be interested to know a Plain Dealer writers brief blurb about last nights 9th inning....saying how the implosion featured,among other things, Here'sJhonny waving at more ground balls than a flagman at cars on I-90.

HJ also got his ass sat down tonight.





This from your "at worst an average defensive ss."







Thank you ,Your Doorknobship.

I'm not exactly sure how Jhonny is supposed to make plays on shots by Beltre into the right field seats...but ok, I guess he should get those. But as alwyas, if it's a loss, it's Peralta somehow, someway. Wedge has benched both Cabrera and Peralta at various points this year multiple games. It's meaningless.

If you dont' like analysis, you have no need to read anything I write regarding Cleveland sports. I offer no bombast. I'm sorry. I am not you. Therefore, I offer my opinions, not yours. I again do not see problem with that. I can't understand why you get so upset with what I analyze. I am wrong often, but differeing views are what they are.

But again, you really cant' dispute it so you offer bombast once again. Beyond words because it was such an airtight writing you can't really dispute it...so you just say "beyond words". I really find nothing beyond words.

It is quite all right for you to go against the grain on LeBron because you are so enlightened...yet when I go against the grain on Peralta, because it differs from you who in this case agree with the "masses" on Peralta, I am a moron.

Which is it?? You are quite duplicitous sir.

Yet, somehow I read the play by play for the 9th inning and it goes something like...Suzuki singled to 2nd, Lopez singled to RIGHT, Beltre homered to right.

Now if Peralta's range is now expected to get to balls hit to the second baseman and to the right fielder and into the right field seats...you have much higher opinions of Peralta than I do. Much, much higher by far. Now if somehow the implosion was considered 40 minutes later after the Mariners have already broken the tie, your opinions of when games are decided also differs greatly from mine.

You may be interested to know a Plain Dealer writers brief blurb about last nights 9th inning....saying how the implosion featured,among other things, Here'sJhonny waving at more ground balls than a flagman at cars on I-90.

Poor fielding is poor fielding no matter when it may happen.




And I am among legion who believe him to be a poor fielder.

Ah wonder if sitting his ass down last night was a way of rewarding him for fielding excellence?

Cabrera has sat down plenty of games this year as well...as I mentioned. That is what Wedge does this year. Garko finally sat two nights ago...Hafner sat last night. In Cabrera's case I would guess it has more to do with him hitting under his weight thus far as opposed to defense...Garko and Hafner as well. No one is really playing well this year batting other than Martinez and Sizemore. I think the sittings have been distributed amongst everyone. I would think you would know that following the team and all...but I guess not.

But again facts don't really matter when you have bombast. I'm guessing despite the Peralta benching last night, Carroll won't be a full time player this year. He is giving both Peralta AND Cabrera nights off now and then when they are struggling as both Peralta AND CAbrera have been doing this year offensively as has the rest of the team minus Martinez and Sizemore.

It just so happens Here'sJhonny sat after expressing parting is such sweet sorrow to ground balls.


But of course..that's just a coincidence.

Funny thing about the game Tuesday...Peralta was much worse with the stick than the glove...he came up with a truckload of men on base with one and two outs and nary a clutch hit with DPs etc...he got not one man in. His bat was a much bigger factor in the loss than his glove. I would think following the team and all you would be able to figure these things out. My guess is his sitting last night had much more to do with that than his defense as run scoring has been a much bigger issue this year than defense on the team.

Peralta is not a great player and never was and never will be. He certainly is far from the lone INdian struggling this year on offense however.

Well there you go again...as per usual. Bringing in 78 other topics to cover you ineptitude in debating the only one I have been talking about.



He is an abysmal fielder at the most crucial position in fair territory.

You say he is at WORST an acceptable def. ss.



Somehow flagman on I-90 disagree with you.

And again, following the team you should know Peralta is playing becuase of his offense and his potential to hit 25-30 home runs and thinking he should be a .270-.280 hitter. Whether he ever does that, is questionable, but that is the thought by the front office. As I wrote in my post on how much his poor defense really costs them, it ain't much. You think front offices don't crunch these numbers as well??? Jeter is just as bad if not worse than Peralta and yet he still plays and the Yankees are always in post season. Jeter is a .300 plus hitter yearly and is a terrific offensive player. What he does with the bat makes up for his tortoise range. What is Wedge upset about this year?? Horrible at bats...by everyone. Again, that is the struggle. Peralta was the killer Tuesday with men in scoring posiition. Beleive me, WEdge was more upset with his at bats than if he let a random ball get into left field after the game was already blown by Betancourt.

Facts my man. They exist.

Now think...how many facts ..true facts....did you just post?

I debated it thoroughly and you had ZERO response. I brought numbers to justify it. I compared his tortoise range to a SS with excellent range and how much it cost them. It does cost...but not as much as you think. AGain, I bring up Jeter as another bad range SS on a team that wins. Obviously a great range shortstop is not necessary to win in MLB. Obviously, you want a great defensive shortstop, but it does not keep you from winning. I woudl humbly submit to you the INdians did not lose the ALCS becuase Peralta can't field...they lost because their pitching fell apart.

I debated the Peralta defense topic SOLELY and you had no response to any fact I offered.

I think the INdias front office expect what I gave offensively from Peralta. It is a fact Peralta had a horrible offensive night Tuesday. It is a fact Jeter does not have any range at all. It is a fact Jeter is a perennial .300 plus hitter and a very good offensive player. It is a fact WEdge is upset by horrible at bats this year...he has stated it after several games. The Yankees have been in postseason 13 straight years I believe?

Pretty much everything stated in that post is an undisputed fact. Other than the fact that I made up what the INdians expect from Peralta offensively. I just estimated what they want. And what I estimated is about right I think.

My response has always been the same....he is a poor fielding ss primarily because he has no range and no desire to charge grounders.

You rely on "stats" ( which,by the way , you once told me I shouldn't use because they were useless) that are hung on opinion.......many,many of us knowledgeable people need only to see what he does in the field to have seen more than enough of this klutz.

I would say the post had at least 7 true and indisputable facts in it.

1. Yankees always in postseason
2. Jeter .300 plus hitter
3. Jeter terrific offensive player
4. Wedge upset with horrible at bats this year
5. Peralta had a horrid offensive game Tuesday
6. Tuesday's game already blwon by Betancourt when defensive plays by Peralta made.
7. Jeter has horrid range at shortstop.

That's fine. But what does it really cost them?? I actually made the effort to quantify what his poor defense costs them. I'm sure teams do this. What his "poor" defense costs them is minimal at most. He makes the routine plays and turns the DP. Stats are what they are. Opinion has not much to do with it. I forget which stats I told you were useless.

In the end, our little debates get heated and I probably spout ridiculous things at times, but I honestly try to defend my opinions. You honestly know your stuff quite well, but I do too. Though I disagree overall about Peralta and LeBron you have good points about both...but I think you take it way too far in your criticisms.

I try to hang in thee with you to no avail but the effort is always there. LeBron made some mistakes last night without question.

Another well done debate AVery. I'm improving but still have a ways to go I think!! Just another brutal week in Cleveland sports...pretty much same ol *&** as always!! I woke up to 11 inches of snow in my driveway this lovely May morning, and you have the audacity to question why I live in Idaho!!! Shame on you!! AT least I won't have to mow the lawn today.

Gosh I'm sorry....I was busy destroying a certain Gatekeeper somewheres else.

Yes...tough break on that weather.....and tough break on The Chosen One.





One of these days he'll back up all that talk and not miss an important game winner.

I have to say I have grown fond of the Wizzards. I like the way they play hard...not dirty...just hard.



I also think they have come out with some really funny lines during this series.

Perfect WedgieStrategy example.

Lewis did very well as a rookie relief pitcher last year.


Not so well this year..but not bad.... era of about 3.6 So what happens? Out of the blue he gets sent down....and a Wedge player is called up. Elarton.

Elarton is about 78 years old and is coming off an arm transplant. No one else wanted him.

We did.



His first relief appearance was to come in a game clean with the scored tied 3-3.He made it through the inning giving up only 3 runs and we lost 6-3.

That was quite comical. Elarton stunk when he was good. HE had a serviceable 2005 as their 5th starter. That was the end of his career...or at least should have been. I had no idea Lewis got sent down. I agree he has not been very good this year, but he has been much better than Betancourt who has completely imploded with another episode blowing the game yesterday. Odd goings on with this team this year.