Originally Posted by prudery

I am horseless at the moment, but ride an OTTB with issues . I am a TB fan. Have ridden other breeds--Morgans, QH, a few Walkers, WBs, and a foxtrotter . Rode an advanced reiner once----superschooled that did spins---very dizzying . We are hijacking this thread, you know .

Originally Posted by prudery

Thank you for your response . As I said, Secretariat was judged by persons OUTSIDE the racing field to be perfectly made for any sporting discipline, NOT just racing . Nowhere did I say he was perfect . I always felt his feet were a tad small---as halter horses are horribly known for, especially in the QH world . I know about the horse show world . Plenty of fat and fads as well as quality assessments . Good confirmation may be more geared for speed and efficiency in the racehorse, but the principles are the same --balance,strength, efficiency and symmetry, always . Show people aren't used to the stripped down look of the racehorse which often sports the upside down neck and the like . The yearling sales, conversely, are more show-like, as the yearlings are fat and curvaceous for eye appeal . I assume you are a h/j girl . I am dressage . What looks good to you guys doesn't always apply to us--and most dq's are not Tbred fans . Still, the basics are universal .

Originally Posted by BellamyRd.

runs in the money in the classic...? Well maybe, Flower Alley was second, so was Medaglia...both were also Travers winners correct? When is the last 3 to win the BCC? it was Tiznow right? I suppose he'd move ahead of him witha Jockey Club win, but it seems to be coming up a bit light, just like the fields in all the other races Bernardini wins...

Originally Posted by Cajungator26

Not all horses can do a training level test. Trust me. LOL

Originally Posted by TitanSooner

Why would you say Lava Man is a fluke? Oh wait, that's right, he's from California...

Originally Posted by TitanSooner

Why would you say Lava Man is a fluke? Oh wait, that's right, he's from California...

Originally Posted by kentuckyrosesinmay

Maybe not well or maybe in a disaster...but all horses who show unless they are strictly walk/trot horses should be able to walk, trot, canter, stop, and circle. Otherwise...what would they show in?

Originally Posted by dr.fager

we know as well as literary awards, riding titles, expert on police brutality....

get a sense of humor

Originally Posted by Cajungator26

To me, Bernardini looks like a high strung maniac, but that's just me. (Bluegrass Cat does too.) I appreciate the classic thoroughbred appearance and wide set eyes of Barbaro much more so if we're going to be talking about looks. You really can't even compare the two. Barbaro looks the part of a champion IMO.

Originally Posted by Cajungator26

If this doesn't appear bugged out high strung to you, then I don't know what.

Originally Posted by LARHAGE

Well that is where personal opinions come in, to me Bernardini is absolutely the most beautiful horse I have seen in years, his build and his motion are awesome. I actually think a lot of TB's tend to be a little rangy and long headed ( hey, I'm an Arabian breeder) but every now and then you see a TB like Bernardini that has the beautifully shaped chiselled head, keen ears, set close together and a powerfully arched neck, just a beautiful horse. I absolutely love Barbaro as well, but if judging them in a halter class, it would be Bernardini, hands down.

Originally Posted by dr.fager

you forgot self-proclaimed, I'd take my girl Cajun anytime.:eek:

Originally Posted by Cajungator26

If you're an arab breeder, then I definitely understand why you find him more correct than Barbaro. He's got an arab-like head for sure.

Originally Posted by Pillow Pants

Well I was going to answer but it looks like you already have settled on an answer that suits you. Nice going, homer.

Originally Posted by moodwalker

Yeah, me too

Originally Posted by kentuckyrosesinmay

If you want me to go into a long analysis on Barbaro's and Bernardini's strengths and weaknesses in their conformation I will because I have the knowledge to do so, and learned from one of the best in the nation. Carole Moore is a legend in that department. Get ready to pull out a horse judging manual or a veterinary encyclopedia. In fact, I could actually tear both Bernardini and Barbaro apart in that department. They aren't perfectly conformed from a horse show world judging standpoint, but from a horse racing standpoint, they are certainly built to run. Form follows function. Secretariat is definitely not the best physical specimen there is, but he was perfect for racing. Buckpasser is one that comes to mind, but I would have to really look into the Thoroughbred breed to see what I could find. Also, I have found the perfectly conformed horse for another breed...one that stands out about all the rest. One that the horse show world agrees is actually the best. A unanimous champion. His name is Magnum Pysche, and for an Arabian, he is as close to perfect as you get. I cannot find a single fault in him. He has a perfectly flat croup, a perfect shoulder, perfect angles, a perfect head, a perfect back, perfect cannon bones, perfect forearm muscle...perfect everything and the world agrees.

Watch the entire video. He is a legend.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KkPV-k9Mvbk

Secretariat was not perfectly built but he was certainly very, very good. I find that most of the horse racing conformation analysis experts in the horse racing world aren't really experts in overall conformation analysis to the rest of us. I have actually been quite baffled by some of the "good" conformation horses racing analysis experts have put up because, in truth, the horses had horrible conformation. See, in the horse show world, we actually have hundreds of classes that actually judge conformation. This is what I am good at. They are called halter or model classes.

OH BY THE WAY HERE ARE SOME OF MY CREDENTIALS. GO DOWN TO THE JUDGING PHASE AND YOU WILL SEE ME RIGHT THERE "SECOND TOP YOUTH IN THE NATION" IN 2003. JESSICA HARRAWAY.

http://www.4hroundup.com/results/arc...-hippology.htm

HERE IS THE QUARTER HORSE CONGRESS WEBSITE IN WHICH I WAS OVERALL INDIVIDUAL CHAMPION, YET ANOTHER NATIONAL COMPETITION. EASTERN NATIONALS IS THE ONE THAT COUNTS FOR TOP HONORS THOUGH. I HAVEN'T POSTED THESE PICTURES BECAUSE I WAS HAVING A REALLY BAD HAIR DAY, LOOK HORRIBLE, AND WAS EXHAUSTED. PLUS, YOU ALL WOULD ONLY SAY THAT I WAS ONLY BRAGGING. I'M JUST DEFENDING MY CREDIBILITY. SCROLL DOWN THE PAGE AND YOU WILL SEE MY NAME AT THE TOP OF ALMOST EVERY LIST UNDER THE HIPPOLOGY SECTION.

http://www.oqha.com/CONGRESS/hip03.html

Oh yeah, and I judge all breeds! Prudgery you are right in that pictures are can be very misleading, but video is less so. I learned a lot of what I do know from watching videos.

Originally Posted by prudery

Actually, all riding is dressage in theory . With Tbreds, the downhill look is definately not dressage material, but there are plenty of uphill guys . The big issue with the Tbred is whether they have a strong back, loins and the patience required . I watched the Magnum Arab guy video . Lovely elastic horse, but in halter classes don't they have to stand square ??? He doesn't behind .

Originally Posted by Cajungator26

There is more to a training level test than walk, trot, canter, stop and circle. ;)

The purpose of the Training Level Dressage Tests is to confirm that the horse's muscles are supple and loose, and that it moves freely forward in a clear and steady rhythm, accepting contact with the bit. The horse is also asked to stretch down at the trot, and make changes of bend at the trot rather than going through the walk. As you are working through training level and moving towards first level, the horse should be moving and reaching forward towards the bridle. The horse should accept the rider and the riders use of seat and leg. Kind, consistent and correct riding will show with the horses acceptance and obedience to the aids.

I'm no dressage expert, but there is definitely more to a training level test than what you said. It's not easy teaching a horse how to do those things in the correct manner.

Originally Posted by TitanSooner

I actually haven't settled on the fact that he's a fluke.. I hope he runs big in Kentucky.. If he doesn't, I still won't knock what he's accomplished this year. Has he run against stellar fields? probably not, but the same statement many have made for Bernardini can apply to Lava Man.. that he only runs in the best races and it's not his fault who, or who doesn't, enter against him.. Is he as good as Bernardini? I'm realistic.. I'm just tired of the "Once he ships out of CA into real racing, he gets his head handed to him." Can he ship? hasn't proven it yet but I hope he does. I do think he's a different animal than last year, and to call him a fluke after what he's done this year in the best races carded on the circuit and on different surfaces is just plain silly.

sincerely yours,
Homer