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-   -   2009 Breeders' Cup (http://www.derbytrail.com/forums/showthread.php?t=32101)

slotdirt 10-28-2009 02:37 PM
Zenyatta doesn't deserve even a second of consideration for horse of the year regardless of what she does IF she runs in the Classic. Her schedule has been downright laughable. Summer Bird and Gio Ponti are far more likely to challenge Rachel Alexandra for the award.

Antitrust32 10-28-2009 02:38 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by CSC
Then if either Z or SB win the Classic, is it fair to say they should seriously receive HOY consideration, and a horse sitting on the sidelines protecting her record should not get it via defacto.

:zz: :zz:

lordy! Yeah, cause Z didnt sit around for the WHOLE FREAKING YEAR waiting for the classic! :rolleyes:

and Summer Bird didnt already get whopped by her! :rolleyes:

Remember, Rachel DID run 8 times this year! and 11 times in 11 months.

This argument you keep bring up is very misguided, unless you meant 2nd in the voting when you said "HOY consideration", then it is spot on.

VOL JACK 10-28-2009 02:39 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by RockHardTen1985
I hope you bet him...I think there are at the very least 5 horses who are simply better, better suited for the race.
I will now.

VOL JACK 10-28-2009 02:41 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scav
Wow, they changed the lineup today....Give me a minute and I will find out

Fri: Moved the F/M Sprint to right before the Distaff
Sat: They moved the Sprint to earlier and put the Dirt and Turf Mile back to back....Like the moves

Friday
Alw/Opt Claimer 8.5f
Alw/Opt Claimer 6.5f
Breeders' Cup Marathon Marathon $500,000 1 3/4 Miles
Breeders' Cup Juvenile Fillies Turf Juvenile Fillies Turf $1,000,000 1 mile (T)
Grey Goose Breeders' Cup Juvenile Fillies I Juvenile Fillies $2,000,000 1 1/16 Miles
Emirates Airline Breeders' Cup Filly & Mare Turf I Filly & Mare Turf $2,000,000 1 1/4 Miles (T)
Sentient Jet Breeders' Cup Filly & Mare Sprint I Filly & Mare Sprint $1,000,000 7 Furlongs
Breeders' Cup Ladies' Classic I Ladies' Classic $2,000,000 1 1/8 Miles
Las Palmas

Saturday
Damascus Stakes 7f
Breeders' Cup Juvenile Turf II Juvenile Turf $1,000,000 1 Mile (T)
Breeders' Cup Turf Sprint Turf Sprint $1,000,000 6.5 Furlongs (T)
Sentient Jet Breeders' Cup Sprint I Sprint $2,000,000 6 Furlongs
Grey Goose Breeders' Cup Juvenile I Juvenile $2,000,000 1 1/16 Miles
TVG Breeders' Cup Mile I Mile $2,000,000 1 Mile (T)
Breeders' Cup Dirt Mile I Dirt Mile $1,000,000 1 Mile
Emirates Airline Breeders' Cup Turf I Turf $3,000,000 1 1/2 Miles (T)
Breeders' Cup Classic I Classic $5,000,000 1 1/4 Miles
Oak Tree Derby 9f Turf
Looks like they are trying to get Zensational out of the late p4.
I don't think he is the lock that most do.

Scav 10-28-2009 02:43 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by VOL JACK
Looks like they are trying to get Zensational out of the late p4.
I don't think he is the lock that most do.
Its about field size, i like the move, that late pick four is gonna be a doozy

Gander 10-28-2009 02:44 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by slotdirt
Zenyatta doesn't deserve even a second of consideration for horse of the year regardless of what she does IF she runs in the Classic. Her schedule has been downright laughable. Summer Bird and Gio Ponti are far more likely to challenge Rachel Alexandra for the award.
Couldnt agree more. 1 race doesnt make anybody HOY. Her other wins have been jokes against very slow animals.

If any horse ever deserved to sit on the sidelines, its Rachel Alexandra. What she did this year is simply amazing. Shes HOY unless Summer Bird wins this in a romp, then it may be a close vote.

CSC 10-28-2009 02:46 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Antitrust32
:zz: :zz:

lordy! Yeah, cause Z didnt sit around for the WHOLE FREAKING YEAR waiting for the classic! :rolleyes:

and Summer Bird didnt already get whopped by her! :rolleyes:

Remember, Rachel DID run 8 times this year! and 11 times in 11 months.

This argument you keep bring up is very misguided, unless you meant 2nd in the voting when you said "HOY consideration", then it is spot on.
Actually I don't care for Zenyatta, other than if she gets consideration those misguided voters should look at Summer Bird, I know the Rachel fans love dining out on her Haskel win but culmulatively if Summer Bird wins the BC he would have faced far better horses than RA has this year while winning on both synth and dirt tracks. Twice I might add at the classic distance. That's all that matters, she may have been better than him in one race in the summer, I doubt she is now in the fall(present tense), otherwise Jess would surely try to add to her legacy, that's what it is all about with her he was quoted as saying, well strange way of showing it.

Most people say in for a penny in for a pound, in RA's case in for a penny in for 1/2 a pound is quite apropos.

Antitrust32 10-28-2009 02:56 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by CSC
Actually I don't care for Zenyatta, other than if she gets consideration those misguided voters should look at Summer Bird, I know the Rachel fans love dining out on her Haskel win but culmulatively if Summer Bird wins the BC he would have faced far better horses than RA has this year while winning on both synth and dirt tracks. Twice I might add at the classic distance. That's all that matters, she may have been better than him in one race in the summer, I doubt she is now in the fall(present tense), otherwise Jess would surely try to add to her legacy, that's what it is all about with her he was quoted as saying, well strange way of showing it.

Most people say in for a penny in for a pound, in RA's case in for a penny in for 1/2 a pound is quite apropos.

Him winning at 1 1/4 and her winning at 1 1/8th means nothing for either horse's HOY chances. this "classic" distance thing is out dated.

So far, Summer Bird has not faced "far better horses" at all. And only will in the BC because of some good turfers who are running on a alternate turf surface.

I like Summer Bird quite a bit, eventhough i am a Rachel homer. I also think a Summer Bird BC win would make him a MUCH better HOY selection instead of a Zenyatta BC winner. But neither have a chance against Rachel.

But lets revisit this after the BC, because most likely SB will not win (not because he's not the best.. he is probably the best pre-entry in that race.. but because of the surface), and if he DOES win then we can bring this subject back up.

Antitrust32 10-28-2009 03:00 PM
I know this is a stupid question and it really shows how little I really care for a BC on fake non-dirt, but when is it? This upcoming weekend or the weekend after?

slotdirt 10-28-2009 03:06 PM
Has anybody considered whether Zenyatta is actually going to like going the full 10 panels?

Gander 10-28-2009 03:20 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Antitrust32
I know this is a stupid question and it really shows how little I really care for a BC on fake non-dirt, but when is it? This upcoming weekend or the weekend after?
LOL! This is a great post which shows how much this crap has ruined racing and what an insult it is to racing fans that the "big event" is on a fake surface.

Its next weekend by the way. Nov 6-7. Why those dumbasses insist on having half of it on a day (Friday) most people work is beyond me.

Scav 10-28-2009 03:23 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gander
LOL! This is a great post which shows how much this crap has ruined racing and what an insult it is to racing fans that the "big event" is on a fake surface.

Its next weekend by the way. Nov 6-7. Why those dumbasses insist on having half of it on a day (Friday) most people work is beyond me.
You guys are just a bunch of crybabies, all synthetics have done is add another dimension to handicapping and racing. It isn't like the breed has changed because of the surface. Some like it, some hate it.

Some like hard dirt, some like deep sandy surfaces, some like a sealed track and some like water on top of it.

slotdirt 10-28-2009 03:27 PM
Some like to come to the Derby dressed as a pimp and get dual classic winners fully erect. To each their own.

SniperSB23 10-28-2009 03:28 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scav
You guys are just a bunch of crybabies, all synthetics have done is add another dimension to handicapping and racing. It isn't like the breed has changed because of the surface. Some like it, some hate it.

Some like hard dirt, some like deep sandy surfaces, some like a sealed track and some like water on top of it.
As a third surface I would be fine with them. As a dirt replacement I have MAJOR problems with them, especially with BC dirt races being contested on them.

Gander 10-28-2009 03:31 PM
The list of really nice horses who arent running in the BC because of its track surface speaks volumes.

Sightseek 10-28-2009 03:33 PM
I'm not thrilled with the BC being run on synthetic, but it's still the BC, so I can't wait for it!

10 pnt move up 10-28-2009 03:43 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gander
The list of really nice horses who arent running in the BC because of its track surface speaks volumes.
Who? RA, Macho Again (though really nice, cmon).

Antitrust32 10-28-2009 03:44 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scav
You guys are just a bunch of crybabies, all synthetics have done is add another dimension to handicapping and racing. It isn't like the breed has changed because of the surface. Some like it, some hate it.

Some like hard dirt, some like deep sandy surfaces, some like a sealed track and some like water on top of it.
that last sentence is so stupid Scav. Why not say some dirt champions like turf? thats what this crap is, and alternative turf surface. It is far more like a turf surface than a dirt surface. You think its cool and okay that all the Turf stars wont even be running in THEIR OWN race because the Classic fits them just as well!?!?


:rolleyes:

Yeah.. lets run the Classic, the premier dirt race in the WORLD, over tires and condoms for two freaking years in a row! Its ridiculous, and like Gander said, the list of the horses who wont be running because of the surface proves how garbage it really is.

This is like the Division I-AA Breeders Cup.

I am not excited at all about this and wont be. Of course I'm going to watch it, because its like one of 5 times during the year that racing is even on TV! Not going to bet on it though, unless freaky stuff happens and the Euro turf stars have high odds.. then I just want the free money.

Antitrust32 10-28-2009 03:47 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by slotdirt
Some like to come to the Derby dressed as a pimp and get dual classic winners fully erect. To each their own.

LOL this is funny! (though Scav is a great guy)

Scav 10-28-2009 03:47 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by SniperSB23
As a third surface I would be fine with them. As a dirt replacement I have MAJOR problems with them, especially with BC dirt races being contested on them.
It isn't like dirt is going anywhere, NY will be dirt forever, Churchill isn't going anywhere, Florida isn't going synthetic.....


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