"Much Success, Much Success !!!" -Borat

They voted for Obama. Millions of people voted for Al Gore. Even more watch American Idol. Oops, the last two would be how stupid...

Yes, it's fiction because you say it is. Got it. There is no accessible list of the number of people laid off from jobs in the auto and associated industries (unemployment roles) that could possibly be a source for that estimate.

They believe the President is an illegal secretly foreign-born alien. They think the government is going to take over their health care and kill grandma. They think a black guy being in their White House is a violation of their Constitution.

That's probably more gullible mixed with stupid, than naive.

Riot believes she is a Republican.

(retiring again now)

Ah the racism tactic. Yeah we all love Pelosi and Reid and Kennedy and Gore and Kerry and Howard Dean and....the other minorities on the left.

You cant measure jobs saved.

http://www.oaktreepeak.com/Blog/2009...t_created.html

The myth of government created jobs is the twin to the myth of jobs saved by protectionist tariffs. Put a 20% tariff on imported steel in an effort to protect the jobs of U.S. steel workers and what is the result? The cost of everything made from steel is higher than it would otherwise be - a hidden tax on consumers. A new oven that might have cost $300 may now cost $360. The consumer has $60 less to spend on something else. Perhaps they would have dined at a neighborhood restaurant but now have less disposable income to do so. Perhaps the restaurant will reduce the size of its workforce because business is slow. Capital that is spent by consumers to maintain the jobs of the steelworkers has not magically appeared; it has been removed from other sectors of the economy. Once again, the jobs that are lost are spread out over the country and are impossible to identify, while politicians can easily point to the steel industry and say "look, we saved these jobs". They are simply robbing Peter to pay Paul, but Peter is hidden away in the cellar and Paul just bought a new SUV.

Nice work, if you can get it

Oh, it isn't that the numbers that Obama uses to make his claims are somewhat jiggured, but that the whole claim is impossible to figure all the way around and Obama's economic team knows it, according to Fratto. The claim is simply a fiction, a fantasy, a claim made based on no numbers and no ability to find them.

Fratto says:

Here's an important note to my friends in the news media: the White House has absolutely no earthly clue how many job losses have been prevented because of the stimulus bill. None. Not Christina Romer. Not Jared Bernstein. Not Austen Goolsbee.

Each of these distinguished economists would have failed Statistics 101 for making such a laughable claim. But we see them now repeating these assertions to reporters who have seemingly abandoned all skepticism.


Fratto rightly points out that in the first place the so-called stimulus money (something that we all here know is no stimulus at all) has not even hit the real economy yet so calculating its effect now is impossible. But his second point is the crux of the matter. The Obama administration cannot possibly calculate this claim that any jobs are saved because it is an impossible task to calculate an accurate baseline that would measure what the employment level will be in the future with OR without the stimulus spending.

In fact, Fratto says, the government can't even get a correct reading of jobs created in the past most of the time, much less the future.

You only need to know this: the Bureau of Labor Statistics (BLS) - thousands of the most professional and rigorous counters and analyzers of labor data in the history of mankind - makes TWO revisions of employment data for their ESTIMATE of the PREVIOUS month! And even then the reports are mere estimates - an annual benchmark survey is required to reset the nation's payroll baseline.

That is, the best employment statisticians the world has ever known, people whose lives are dedicated to employment data, conducting labor surveys and research, constantly refining their complex models, have a difficult time telling you how many jobs were created in the PAST!


So, if the government can't even get labor stats from the past right, how can we expect them to get future predictions right? TV weathermen have better prediction records


http://newsbusters.org/blogs/warner-...iving-him-pass

Since when did being Republican become defined by having an ultra-conservative, extreme right wing "completely against everything" viewpoint?

Tell you what - when you get around to contributing as much to the GOP over your lifetime as I have in mine, let me know. Some of us are very angry and disappointed to see the hijacking and ruination and utter stupidity going on now within the GOP, and that sure as hell doesn't make us non-Republicans.

No, it was the "point out the stupidity" tactic.

I agree, you can only to a limited extent trusting information an industry gives you - "We publically said we were planning on laying off 100, but didn't because ... "

However you can use current unemployment figures within industries, and see which way the industries are heading, to predict how many of those people will be brought back to work, and if the industries are growing.

Nobody will know if it's silly or not until the last quarter comes, and we see the accuracy.

Get back to me then if you want to complain about it. This complaining about stuff that "might" happen, as if it's a done deal, is getting pretty tiresome.

I dont see a correlation between stupidity and racsim. If I call someone stupid that doesnt make them racist or vice versa. I'm sure there are brilliant people who are racist.


Figured you were just going for a typical liberal talking point. You know when you have nothing of substance to back your views, just label the other side racist.

It is tiresome for me to see the White House consistently use deceptive "numbers" to support their claims purely for political gains. It taints everything else that they say or do. If you want to say that it could be said about any politician fine. But the current admnistration routinely uses phony numbers (a made up number is not a fact or even a worthwhile projection) to try to curry favor for its policies most of which will prove to eventually be destructive to the average American citizens life. Hopefully I wont have to get back to you on that.

Being opposed to what Obama has proposed hardly qualifies one as ultra conservative or extreme right wing. In fact the greatest area of support that he has lost is the independent voters, most of whom would bristle at being called extreme right wingers. Some of us conservatives (and I would be labeled a moderate by most based upon my views especially on social issues) see the phoniness of Obana and company for what it is. The GOP may suck but it is still the far lesser of the two evils. You have fallen prey to the vultures of liberal intellectuallism. Or you never really were a GOP member at heart. Or maybe you are a Dallas Cowboy fan-type bandwagon follower?

Ouch!!!...bet that one hurt!:D

Sniper made me do it

Think you may be 'all alone' with the some of us but that made me smile huge! Thanks

PS You should have known better when you laid that first Jimmy Carter crappy novelette down and thought 'he gets it'. :D

You don't think racism is stupid? Along with believing in death panels, the government killing grandma, and believing that the President is a secret illegal alien?

Nope. That was you, alone, digging under that stone, picking it up and running with it. Nice try.

All alone? :D Silly Birthers like you are a minority in the GOP. Not the majority.

The point is that the jobs number estimate can't yet be judged to be a deceptive estimate, as the quarter hasn't even occured yet.

Yet it's okay for you to now dismiss those numbers are false as they are made up.

Sure.

You equate racism with conspiracy theories. I just dont know what to say?

Uh actually you were the one who threw the r word out there. There is nothing to dig, your intention was obvious.

What utter nonsense, Chuck. Keep trying.

There is no accurate way to measure jobs "saved" in the past, present or future. Unless an alternate universe occurs where we can monitor different possibilities it is all just made up numbers. Therefore since it cant be measured ever it is a deceptive number.

You can count jobs lost.
You can count jobs gained.
You cant count jobs saved.

Nonsense? Did you not say this?

They think a black guy being in their White House is a violation of their Constitution.

Please explain how this wouldn't be construed as a statement that condemns "they" as racist?

Because I already clearly said it condemns them as stupid, and stupid is what I clearly used it as an example of.

Keep trying.

Racism is an unusual way to describe stupid.

But I will stand aside to your knowledge of stupid...

Good one ;)

Try, not reading my statement in a way you can deliberately twist as an accusation of racism, but exactly as it was written:

Yes, Chuck, there are people that think a strict reading of the Constitution of the United States doesn't allow for anybody other than white men to be President (and that would exclude any women, too, like Hillary)

Yes, I do think those folks are stupid.

There is no twisting. It is implied racism as is the the idea that those who would believe that the Constitution doesnt allow for anyone other than white men to be President aren't racist as opposed to strict followers of law.

Naw, there's clearly deliberate twisting. Keep trying.

You brought up race without context. How else would reasonable person take it?

they sold the stimulus as necessary to keep unemployment from reaching 10%. yeah, that went well.

they sold the budget as saving money, our deficit is at a new record. new numbers indicate 2 trillion higher than what they had planned. who are they? the entire federal govt-congress and the president. it's not one person that caused this problem, and it certainly is well beyond one persons ability to fix it. the entire mindset of that group of morons needs to change-immediately. no doubt this was the change many thought would occur-oops.

A reasonable person would notice I clearly placed the comment about birthers, death panels, and constitutional whackos within the context of "stupid" (and naive, and gullible):

I know! I can't believe they didn't fix the second worse economy in our country's history in 6 months!

my point is it wasn't just bush that has gotten us here-and it certainly won't be just obama if we get out of it. it's a rotten mess that's years in the making. but the attempts thus far to fix what is horribly broken doesn't give me any faith in thinking it will be fixed any time in the near future, if ever. bush and congress during his terms were huge spenders. obama and congress are doing more of the same-actually, spending has increased dramatically in the last few months. it's not a change-certainly not an improvement.

I'm just trying to be sympathetic to a cause... Show the damn birth certificate, it exists cause a “official' saw it. Show it and be done. How hard is that???????

c'mon he's no Jimmy Carter but he's getting close.

a completely unimportant cause to get behind. hell, john edwards couldn't even visit his ho-bag baby momma without getting caught. you really think barrack obama isn't an actual citizen? i think that topic is silly.

This thread is Internet Message Board Hall of Fame material.