I dont think Bullsbay, Cool Coal Man, Macho Again, Asiatic Boy, Quality Road, Mine That Bird, Summer Bird, Warriors whatever, kensai, etc. scare Assman and jackson at all.

The Woodward is a joke w/out Rachel. But honestly would you really want to throw down big money on all the 3yo's listed, besides Quality Road maybe, beating the older horses listed?

I'm waiting to see how many more times the Preakness will be brought up as an indication that RA is distance challenged.:rolleyes:

Yeah man! This is a very rich thread!

lol.. exactly

While I think 1 1/8th is a perfect distance for Rachel... I dont think she'd have any problems with 1 1/4th in the Travers.

If the Haskell was 1 1/4th instead of 1 1/8th she would have won by 12 instead of 6..

I thought she'd win by 5 in the Preakness, I thought she'd win by 5 in the Haskell. I'd have the exact same opinion if she was running in the Travers.

and...

Sure. Bullsbay, Cool Coal man, Macho Again and Asiatic boy have all been beaten with regularity their whole careers by mediocres. While running in the Woodward is a nice achievement it isnt exactly Holy Bull, Cigar and Skip Away lining up against her.

However some of like to actually see the horse do it before giving them credit for it. She may or may not be at a disadvantage at 1 1/4 but i suppose we will never know.

I guess it's similar to Personal Ensign beating males in the Whitney.

Gulch and Kings Swan

Gulch and Kings Sawn would drown those mutts.

like jackson said, rachel can't win 3 yo colt-and that competition is wide open. kensei has a shot at it..hell, it's probably why pletcher is risking bringing quality road back off one sprint effort.

also, the woodward has never been won by a female...

This may be so. But this is distinct from misinterpreting her OBVIOUS trip in the Preakness and then concluding that she's distance challenged. The former allows some room for speculation; the latter is just an embarrassingly poor opinion and a waste of time (no matter how often it's advanced).

What was wrong with last years Travers? That was one of the best betting races I have been a part of last year, that Travers Day card was probably the single most memorable card of the year with the exception of BC day 2.

Normally I would agree with you, however we haven't had anything in the older horse category to be excited about this year and probably last year with the exception of a couple of races from Curlin.

It was a good betting race but the quality wasn't all that great....

How about none of the top three from the Derby showed up which also included the Preakness winner who was the only remotely talented horse from his crop? If you are talking from a betting standpoint that is different but I don't see how Rachel going in the Travers made it a better betting race.

Last years Travers was a great betting race but the Col John of 2008 would be 40-1 in this field. Hell, if they could smuggle him into the race right now, he'd be 50-1, as a 4yo. The 3yo crop of 2008 never failed to disappoint me.

This is a great lineup, even without RA. MTB won the Derby and was 2nd then 3rd in the rest of the TC. Summer Bird won the Belmont off a decent Derby. QR wond the Florida Derby, Kensei won the Jim Dandy and is a horse for the course. Warrior's Reward appears to be about as good as Kensei. It's a very good lineup of proven stakes quality 3yo's. I do with that a Cal based runner was shipping in though.

Look at who we have in late Aug and imagine what the bunch might look like had we not lost IWR, The Pamplemousse and Fresian Fire. This is a very nice bunch of horses.

I think this is a debatable point, Harlem Rocker, Pyro and Colonial John all have been or were sidelined with injuries, despite this Harlem Rocker did win abeit Dq'd the Cigar Mile beating Bribon among others...That race went to Travers entrant Tale of Ekati...Macho Again won the Foster and Cool Coal Man is stating to have the looks of a promising horse. Give it more time and we may see the quality of last year's Travers even more so.

Edit-Court Vision also won the Hollywood Derby last year.

I'm really talking about both points, I don't understand how you can say Rachel in the Travers is not more interesting or a better race. Okay we will have to agree to disagree.

Someone has to win those races.

I would agree strongly. This race doesnt need Rachel. Its probably the best Travers both from a quality standpoint to a betting standpoint in over 10 years. I love it.