Derby Trail Forums - 6/14 (CD): Stephen Foster Day

Derby Trail Forums (http://www.derbytrail.com/forums/index.php)

- The Paddock (http://www.derbytrail.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=2)

- - 6/14 (CD): Stephen Foster Day (http://www.derbytrail.com/forums/showthread.php?t=23206)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Since the majority of our important racing has been on dirt and the euros almost never beat us there couldnt you say that they are inferior to us? As a matter of fact we beat them a hell of a lot more on the turf than they beat us on the dirt. I have seen lots of superior euros come here and lose. I have also seen lots of mediocre euros come here and improve, often bleeders due to lasix use. Are they superior also? We ran 4 BC races on the turf last year in soggy conditions that should have favored the euros yet they won zero. Of the last 13 BC turf races they have won 4, hardly dominant. I remember a horse named Var who was just a horse over here, was sent to France and became the top rated sprinter in Europe. Turf horses in this country are still not really desired and are considered 2nd class citizens at least until they show they can be stakes horses. to be fair there are a whole lot more good American turf horses than there are european dirt horses. If dirt racing was eliminated in the US and the breeders and trainers concentrated strictly on turf racing, the euros would soon be second class. And that is actually a plausible situation.

i saw a graphic (perhaps before last years or the previous years arl million) that showed that euros didn't beat us nearly as much as it was perceived....but good luck arguing the reality of the situation. it's like the continued fable of pimlico benefitting early speed due to it's tight turns.

Quote:

Originally Posted by jcs11204

3 ? omg hockey i like you and all but 3, wow even 4 ?

rags to riches....curlin... street sense.... hard spun

i could argue tiago... lears princess and lady joanee and grasshopper.... as 3 yr olds.

what has that got to do with anything?

Quote:

Originally Posted by RolloTomasi

I was just defending the position someone took that Curlin, as far as his position amongst racehorses all-time is concerned, would achieve a higher reputation if he were to run on grass and be successful at the top level.

From your reply to that post, you seemed to assume that the point of running on grass was to increase his stud value, but that wasn't what was being said by the other poster. I brought up Secretariat as an example of a dirt horse switching to the turf in a sporting move.

One could also mention Buckpasser, who I think was planning for a tilt at the Arc in France at 4 and was run in the Tidal or Bowling Green at Belmont to get a feel for turf. Because of some shoeing complications, he didn't handle it particularly well, and finished 3rd, ending his international travel plans. Unfortunately, it also ended a 15-race win streak, which would have tied him with Citation well before Cigar did with that cheesy manufactured race at Arlington.

Hopefully, Jess Jackson ups the ante of his sportsmanship by moving this horse to grass as opposed to just trying to break the pointless all-time money record or sending Curlin to Japan for the Japan Cup Dirt to face another group of no-hopers as he did in Dubai...

i think it would definitely move curlin up should he race in the arc, and actually win-altho i have a hard time believing either will happen.

a lot gets lost in translation imo on this board. the other day at a meeting a man talked about how much of a conversation involves body language, tone of voice, etc. he's right.
i got the idea from some posters that they thought he should run on turf to increase his stud fee, which i also don't think is the case. being a smart strike, i think most already assume the turf is there in his pedigree.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scurlogue Champ

She was fairly common over in France... Not terrible, but not clashing heads with the best.

i think it has to do mostly with the cut in the ground--they want it VERY soft over there, and i would think they send those who don't like it that way over here, where they can get a much firmer course.
i'd imagine they'd relish the turf here on the days we take off due to weather. and i don't think we take off due to the safety issue-it's more the fear of tearing up the course in the soft going, and not having anything to run on in the days to come.
racing over there is completely different, in that they have short festivals, no worries about keeping a turf course viable for a few months like we have over here.