Bernardini IS

[kentuckyrosesinmay]

The greatest racehorse that I have ever seen. God, what a freak! He is going to annihilate the BC Classic field!

Lava Man was spectacular once again, as was Aragorn and Henny Hughes. Awesome day of racing! I can't wait until BC Day!!!

[Seattleallstar]

well said Jess, only Candy Ride has made me drop my jaw in awe.

As much as I am a Lava Man basher, i was impressed by him today. He finally gets my respect, even if he does run up the track in Louisville.

[Pointg5]

Umm, he won, but what exactly was freaky about that performance?


That was an awful race, they went 25 and change, he's a very nice horse, but that was hardly anything to get excited about. DT did not run a step, AH is an allowance horse, and Wandering Boy is a nice G3 horse, you knew the race was over when the jock for WB looked back to make sure he could still run 2nd. He's the best horse in training, but he's not going to know what hit him, when they go faster and they trade blows on him...

Henny, Aussie Rules, and Lava Man were all more impressive, especially HH...

[skippy3481]

i agree bern may be a better horse but lava man's race was much more impressive. Fought off several horses to draw away. Bernadini just had to sit second until wb got tired then walk home.

[King Glorious]

Lava Man did not impress me today. He's going to have to do a lot better in Kentucky. U could easily see the amount of effort needed by both he and Bernardini today. Granted, he was facing a much tougher field than Bernardini was but the effortlessness of Bernardini's race was stunning. Without being asked for anything close to his best, he still was running strong at the end. Lava Man on the other hand was being asked, even hit by the stick in the lane. And I don't think he was going faster than Bernardini was. The BC Classic is going to be a coronation for Bernardini. He didn't beat much at all but he did it the way he was supposed to. This is a once in a lifetime horse. Unless u are a Dubai sheikh. Imagine that I don't even think he's the best horse in the family. The Classic should be a match race between he and Lava Man. There are NO other horses that belong on the same track with them. And I don't even think Lava Man belongs on the same track with Bernardini.

[kentuckyrosesinmay]

Lava Man did not impress me today. He's going to have to do a lot better in Kentucky. U could easily see the amount of effort needed by both he and Bernardini today. Granted, he was facing a much tougher field than Bernardini was but the effortlessness of Bernardini's race was stunning. Without being asked for anything close to his best, he still was running strong at the end. Lava Man on the other hand was being asked, even hit by the stick in the lane. And I don't think he was going faster than Bernardini was. The BC Classic is going to be a coronation for Bernardini. He didn't beat much at all but he did it the way he was supposed to. This is a once in a lifetime horse. Unless u are a Dubai sheikh. Imagine that I don't even think he's the best horse in the family. The Classic should be a match race between he and Lava Man. There are NO other horses that belong on the same track with them. And I don't even think Lava Man belongs on the same track with Bernardini.

Yes, Bernardini is a once in a lifetime horse. He brought tears to my eyes today.

I think Henny Hughes may just be the best sprinter that I have ever seen as well.

Lava Man, I love because of his class and heart, but he isn't even in the same league as Bernardini is. No horse in the world is right now except for maybe Discreet Cat, and I don't think that he could match up to Bernie. Not at a mile and a quarter.

[stpeteslew]

and to think this joke of a race goes down as a grade 1.hank goldberg would be better competition than the bums bernardini has faced.

[ezrabrooks]

and to think this joke of a race goes down as a grade 1.hank goldberg would be better competition than the bums bernardini has faced.

But at least a Grade One horse won it.. He looks the best I've seen in quite a while, but, he still hasn't been looked in the eye... and asked to dig down. Heck, he may never have too. Who was that Barbaro horse?

Ez

[Downthestretch55]

I haven't seen one that moves as easily as Bern.
Enjoy this one. The ones like him don't come along that often.

[stpeteslew]

i see a grade 1 horse is a horse who routinely beats lousy horses in small errr very small fields.by that account provennothingdini is a grade1 horse.

[King Glorious]

A grade one horse is one that scares away all of the horses that figure to be competitive with him then makes the others, maybe not great horses but stakes horses nonetheless, look like stable ponies. He can only beat what they send against him. I think it's a combination of him being that good and him being that much better than what he's facing that's making it look so easy.

[somerfrost]

i see a grade 1 horse is a horse who routinely beats lousy horses in small errr very small fields.by that account provennothingdini is a grade1 horse.

Anyone that questions whether Bernardini is a grade one horse is simply a hater! Racing has far too many haters!! I've often said that the reason we don't have more great horses is that we don't deserve them...some folks would have spat on Secretariat!
I agree that today's race was a paid workout for this guy, Dylan Thomas simply can't run on dirt, they know that now, AH is too slow for the top horses and a rabbit is a rabbit BUT, anyone who knows anything about racing, and by that I mean can watch a horse run and see greatness when it's obviously there, is impressed with this guy!
Lava Man...same thing! Lots of haters! This guy is the real deal, he did face a reasonably good field today and blew them away...was he asked to do more than Bernardini? Sure, he had to set the pace then draw off...so what? He did everything anyone could ask! We have 2 maybe 3 special horses heading to the BCC...enjoy them, we may not have a year like this again in a long long time!

[Pedigree Ann]

Bernardini was in a wfa race, GETTING weight from inferior older horses. Lava Man was in a handicap, GIVING 8 to 15 lbs to inferior older horses and a 3yo. At level weights, he probably would have won more easily, but the point of a handicap is to give the best horse enough additional weight that the others have a shot of winning. At wfa in Pacific Classic, he had an easier time of it, because he didn't have to concede gobs of weight.

[kentuckyrosesinmay]

Anyone that questions whether Bernardini is a grade one horse is simply a hater! Racing has far too many haters!! I've often said that the reason we don't have more great horses is that we don't deserve them...some folks would have spat on Secretariat!
I agree that today's race was a paid workout for this guy, Dylan Thomas simply can't run on dirt, they know that now, AH is too slow for the top horses and a rabbit is a rabbit BUT, anyone who knows anything about racing, and by that I mean can watch a horse run and see greatness when it's obviously there, is impressed with this guy!
Lava Man...same thing! Lots of haters! This guy is the real deal, he did face a reasonably good field today and blew them away...was he asked to do more than Bernardini? Sure, he had to set the pace then draw off...so what? He did everything anyone could ask! We have 2 maybe 3 special horses heading to the BCC...enjoy them, we may not have a year like this again in a long long time!

Well said somer. This was a GREAT day of racing! Second best day of racing in the year. Second only to the BC.

[todko]

Dylan Thomas is Danehill out of a Diesis mare. Whoever decided to run this horse on dirt based on a few poly workouts -- pathetic. A disgrace.

I still bet against Bernardini in the Classic. A total hype job. Throw a full field against him with solid fractions and I say that this horse won't have anything left. He won't know what hit him.

[PSH]

Bernardini is the best horse that i have seen IMO... Been going to the races since Affirmed and Alydar.....

He just does it with ease......

What a treat....:)

[todko]

Yes, Bernardini is a once in a lifetime horse. He brought tears to my eyes today.

I think Henny Hughes may just be the best sprinter that I have ever seen as well.

Lava Man, I love because of his class and heart, but he isn't even in the same league as Bernardini is. No horse in the world is right now except for maybe Discreet Cat, and I don't think that he could match up to Bernie. Not at a mile and a quarter.

Bernardini is just a good 3 year old who has run against nobody. He's been very lucky in that he hasn't had anybody to run against. He might get lucky again because he doesn't have Ghostzapper, St. Liam, or Roses in May to run against. Plenty of older horses can get the 10f in 201 and change. With solid fractions also. It'll be a different story at CD in a few weeks.

The fractions in that race were almost like a turf race. 25+, 48, yawn, sigh, snore, zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz . . . . .

Wake me up when a truly great horse arrives, because it's not Bernardini.

[Downthestretch55]

Bernardini is the best horse that i have seen IMO... Been going to the races since Affirmed and Alydar.....

He just does it with ease......

What a treat....:)
PSH,
I agree.
Best ride of the day, imo, was Gomez on Aussie. Super ride!
Bern...no words could say more. No whip, no urging...just easily.
Savor this one.

[todko]

And your Bernardini assessment is based on what? His Preakness was a pretty good effort, no? I love the hating.

I don't hate any horse. And I never wish anything bad for any horse. I'd rather lose a bet than see a horse I bet against get hurt.

His Preakness was solid -- but no record time. The field folded. It would have been very interesting without the injury to Barbaro.

Frankly, I think Smarty Jones ran a better Preakness. Yet he was never hailed as "very special", or "great", or whatever.

The hype machine is all over Bernardini to get the public's mind off Barbaro.

[todko]

I haven't seen one that moves as easily as Bern.
Enjoy this one. The ones like him don't come along that often.

Ghostzapper was faster than Bernardini will ever be. And that was just two years ago. Horses as good as Bernardini have come along quite often.

[Betsy]

People say that they want to see good horses, that the 70's was the golden era and why can't we get those types again. Yet, when a horse with enormous and still untapped ability emerges, who may yet (if he runs as an older horse) join the ranks of the truly great, people are unhappy. I conclude, therefore, that people do not really want to see great horses; they want to see their own favorites become great, but if a horse that they don't particularly identify with shows that kind of quality, forget about it. The sour grapes start to appear.

I was at the track today (Bernardini looked gorgeous as always - he pranced to the post, neck arched.........spectacular) and one girl who always seemed to be where I was said "I'm still not impressed". I figure she must post on message boards.

Frankly, the 2nd through 4th quarters were pretty stiff - 23 and change for each, I believe. Bernardini was routinely brilliant- Wandering Boy ran well and Bernardini just romped

[todko]

People say that they want to see good horses, that the 70's was the golden era and why can't we get those types again. Yet, when a horse with enormous and still untapped ability emerges, who may yet (if he runs as an older horse) join the ranks of the truly great, people are unhappy. I conclude, therefore, that people do not really want to see great horses; they want to see their own favorites become great, but if a horse that they don't particularly identify with shows that kind of quality, forget about it. The sour grapes start to appear.

I was at the track today (Bernardini looked gorgeous as always - he pranced to the post, neck arched.........spectacular) and one girl who always seemed to be where I was said "I'm still not impressed". I figure she must post on message boards.

Frankly, the 2nd through 4th quarters were pretty stiff - 23 and change for each, I believe. Bernardini was routinely brilliant- Wandering Boy ran well and Bernardini just romped

It was a decent performance. The mid fractions were solid but they were coming off some really slow initial fractions. And he didn't come home in anything riveting.

There's no way Bernardini would have beaten Ghostzapper in the BC Classic. No way. Or St. Liam, or Roses in May. He has an easy chance to do it compared with what other 3 year olds have faced in the Classic. He's been very lucky.

That might change soon depending on what Romans does with Bright One. Or the sheiks do with Discreet Cat.

[Pointg5]

Let LM get away with 25 and he would bury them, that was a rediculous pace and that track was very fast...

[Downthestretch55]

Ghostzapper was faster than Bernardini will ever be. And that was just two years ago. Horses as good as Bernardini have come along quite often.
Well, Ghostzapper was very nice. No debate.
Actually, I wouldn't try to consider the two of them.
Different races, different times.
Bernardini wasn't even "asked" today.
Watch the replay.
He won for fun. No wonder so many have ducked him.
If you don't know what a great horse looks like, there's really no more that I can say. But what do I know? I've only followed this sport since the duels between Affirmed and Alydar. I own nine. Four with Alydar in their peds, three with Deputy Minister, and one with Secretariat.
Discount what I say all you want.
I'll just say that Bernardini's don't come along that often.
Enjoy his efforts or not. Not much more I can say.
DTS

[stpeteslew]

congratulations to bernardini on the first walkover at belmont since spectacular bid in 1980.

[todko]

congratulations to bernardini on the first walkover at belmont since spectacular bid in 1980.

Exactly. Maybe next time they'll pull some carriage horses from downtown NY. You know, the horses that pull the tourists around. He'll, they're older horses. Put them in the gate and let Bernardini maul them.

And then everyone can chant the Bernardini mantra. "He's so great -- he came home in a hand ride".

If you're a big Bernardini booster enjoy the next few weeks . . . because November 4th the hype ends.

[Betsy]

Let LM get away with 25 and he would bury them, that was a rediculous pace and that track was very fast...

Belmont was NOT that fast today ,not at all. Also, the middle 3 fractions were very fast - all 23 and change.

Todko, that horse was cantering and he finished in 25 and change. If he had been asked at all, he would have finished well under that time. Slow internal fractions? See above- not slow at all.

I hope you have a lot of friends who feel as you do; we may get a decent price on Bernardini in the BCC

[ezrabrooks]

Exactly. Maybe next time they'll pull some carriage horses from downtown NY. You know, the horses that pull the tourists around. He'll, they're older horses. Put them in the gate and let Bernardini maul them.

And then everyone can chant the Bernardini mantra. "He's so great -- he came home in a hand ride".

If you're a big Bernardini booster enjoy the next few weeks . . . because November 4th the hype ends.

So Toddy, I guess you are saying that Javier will not be checking over his shoulder at the top of the stretch at the BC?

Ez

[todko]

Belmont was NOT that fast today ,not at all. Also, the middle 3 fractions were very fast - all 23 and change.

Todko, that horse was cantering and he finished in 25 and change. If he had been asked at all, he would have finished well under that time. Slow internal fractions? See above- not slow at all.

I hope you have a lot of friends who feel as you do; we may get a decent price on Bernardini in the BCC

No Betsy, I'll get the price on the horse that beats Bernardini.

[sumitas]

He's been very lucky. I wish him well but I'd like to see him in some real races.

[Cannon Shell]

I never understand why people downgrade a horse based upon his competition. The horse is only running against who shows up and he keeps hammering them. What more do you want him to do? Since his 1st race he has been winning pretty much throttled down. Not like he is winning allowance races. Does not matter who he beats if there isn't anyone out there that measures up to him. Should they try to win the race by 30 lengths? Maybe he is one of the all time greats and maybe he is not. But so far you will have a hard time convincing me that he couldn't beat St. Liam or Roses in May. He may not win eased up against better horses but to say that he would not have been competitive with decent but far from great horses like the 2 mentioned above is kind of silly.

[Cannon Shell]

He's been very lucky. I wish him well but I'd like to see him in some real races.


Like what, the Pomona Derby or Longacres mile? He picked the biggest races and crushed the ones that showed up. He aint lucky, he's good.

[Cannon Shell]

Exactly. Maybe next time they'll pull some carriage horses from downtown NY. You know, the horses that pull the tourists around. He'll, they're older horses. Put them in the gate and let Bernardini maul them.

And then everyone can chant the Bernardini mantra. "He's so great -- he came home in a hand ride".

If you're a big Bernardini booster enjoy the next few weeks . . . because November 4th the hype ends.


Oh yeah? Who do you think will end that hype? Is Ghostzapper secretly training up to the race?

[Cajungator26]

Congrats to Bernardini and his connections. :D

[stpeteslew]

for the record i dont hate bernardini.i support anything associated with seattle slew and ap indy.honestly if he was owned by someone other than sheik mohamhead i probably feel different.

[Charismatic1]

One word - Officer

[2MinsToPost]

In my humble opinion

With Lava having 3 weeks to get right at CD, look for a battle of the ages as the folks in charge will not let this one slip by.

Trevor's call -

Lava by a nose, Lava pulls away and it's Lava

[zippyneedsawin]

Umm, he won, but what exactly was freaky about that performance?


That was an awful race, they went 25 and change, he's a very nice horse, but that was hardly anything to get excited about. DT did not run a step, AH is an allowance horse, and Wandering Boy is a nice G3 horse, you knew the race was over when the jock for WB looked back to make sure he could still run 2nd. He's the best horse in training, but he's not going to know what hit him, when they go faster and they trade blows on him...

Henny, Aussie Rules, and Lava Man were all more impressive, especially HH...


25 change.. yes, then went a half in :48 flat, 3/4 in 1:11 and a mile in 1:35.4... Bernardini was hand ridden the whole way and still coasted home in 2:01 flat.. Nice run.

[PostCritic]

Bernardini crushed Brother Derek when they met. I think he could have taken on Lava Man today :)

[blackthroatedwind]

Weren't there some posters, myself not particularly included, that seemed to think Bluegrass Cat was a very good horse? Bernardini laughed at him.

Believe me, I wish there was better competition for Bernardini, but he certainly seems to be winning with the utmost of ease against these less than stellar fields. No doubt it's unfortunate that Invasor didn't show up today, and/or there wasn't a tougher field in the JCGC, but I can't fault Bernardini. He's at least a very good horse and sorry if I don't agree with the poster who feels he's inferior to both Roses in May and Saint Liam. I think he is a better horse than both of them. Plus he has a different vet than the one they shared.

[PSH]

PSH,
I agree.
Best ride of the day, imo, was Gomez on Aussie. Super ride!
Bern...no words could say more. No whip, no urging...just easily.
Savor this one.


It is not only who Bernardini beats and what his time is ....
It is much more than that. Not easily explained....
It is how he moves and just the way he races and i have been watching racing for 30 years now....
Obviously he is bred in the purple.
Remember, he is just a three year old with only a handful of races.
He should move up that much more next year if he ever races as a four year old.

I respect people with their opinions and i can accept if you do not believe Bernardini is not the best horse you have ever seen, but to say he is not a great horse is just pure non-sense.

As far as Go Go Gomez goes, he is just in a zone right now. Rides are incredible and is always one to fear no matter what his odds are... Johnny V. had a pretty spectacular day also.....

PSH

[blackthroatedwind]

Yeah, that ride on Aussie Rules was flawless. I thought the best part was how quickly he righted the horse after breaking slowly and easily mitigated how much it hurt the horse.

[Round Pen]

I must Admit some of these responses about Bernardini are absolutely hilarious I am Still ROFLMAO over the one "wait till he runs in some real races". Preakness, Jim Dandy, Travers and JCGC. I am Glad I have that straight now that those are not real races.:D

[Pointg5]

Belmont was NOT that fast today ,not at all. Also, the middle 3 fractions were very fast - all 23 and change.

Todko, that horse was cantering and he finished in 25 and change. If he had been asked at all, he would have finished well under that time. Slow internal fractions? See above- not slow at all.

I hope you have a lot of friends who feel as you do; we may get a decent price on Bernardini in the BCC


I disagree with it not being fast, it wasn't a total speedway, but it was playing fast, HH set a stakes record in the Vosburgh and the same level Allow Optional Claimers ran the mile fraction a second slower yesterday...

When is the last time that anyone has seen an opening quarter in a non-turf race go 25? I can't remember, I am sure it's happened, but not very often, I hope that a G1 animal could run fast after catching that break. I am pretty sure you could find allowance horses that could run a mile very close to 1:36 with that kind of pace.

Like I said he's the best horse in training, but I think he's going to be in for it, once he gets competition and he has to fight off multiple moves and deal with traffic. Right now the 3 I'll use either for tri or pick 3 or 4 purposes will be Bernardini, Lava Man, and David Junior.

[TitanSooner]

Here's the facts.. Bernardini ran impressively, Lava Man ran impressively.

Period. Anybody thrashing either performance is either biased or delusional.
.
.
May the best horse win on the 4th.

[ateamstupid]

I find it hilarious that there are still Bernardini haters.

Go ahead and bet against this horse on 11/4. I would LOVE it. Give me a decent price on this monster and go home crying like a salty little girl. It would be "classic," no pun intended.

[pmayjr]

If Bernardini wins the Classic- HE'S THE BEST HORSE SINCE GHOSTZAPPER AT THE CLASSIC DIRT DISTANCES. But he's gotta win the Classic.

[Pointg5]

I find it hilarious that there are still Bernardini haters.

Go ahead and bet against this horse on 11/4. I would LOVE it. Give me a decent price on this monster and go home crying like a salty little girl. It would be "classic," no pun intended.

That's a silly comment...

I am not a Bernardini hater, I actually made a good amount of money on him in the Preakness, it was tragic, but I cashed hard on him in the Preakness. He's the best horse in training, that I have no doubt, but he's had everything his own way and very little competition. That track was fast yesterday and the opening quarter still boggles my mind, but to say that he had fast mid quarters, well I sure hope so. I don't get the lavish amount of praise put on him for not doing a whole lot right now, he's a very good horse, but he's not a Ghostzapper or Mineshaft yet. Jerry Bailey even made the comment yesterday that it looked like he had to get after Bernardini to put away WB, I didn't notice that, but imagine if he has to do that 2-3 times in the Classic, no one can really say with certainty how he'll react, that's all that I am saying. If you put a large win bet on this horse in the BCC, you are taking a risk I don't think will be worth the odds, I'll use him in exotics and hope he runs out, not likely, but I wouldn't take that kind of large win bet risk on him, because he has not proven himself in that situation...

[The Bid]

Its amazing anyone can knock Bernardini. Hes incredible in every sense of the word. As a few posters have noted, the way he moves is unreal. He floats, he doesnt even get out of a gallop for Christ sake. Im sure Javier Castellano, when its all said and done, will tell the world Ghostzapper had nothing on this horse. I mean nothing. This is the kind of horse that makes people realize what a great horse is. This is the best horse since Spectacular Bid, no question about it, how anyone cant see that blows my mind. The last few years there have been some incredible animals come along, Lost in the fog, Henny, Bernardini, Discrete Cat, if those horses dont give you goosebumps, you need to bet football.

[pgardn]

Bernardini looks great. Not as good as Mineshaft or LITF imo. I like their running styles much more. But again... thats me.
Bottom line: The horse has not been pushed. I hope he gets his chance to show how good he is.

Reminds me of Larry Holmes in boxing except unlike Larry, he will retire early. Holmes was a great fighter but he boxed AT THE WRONG TIME. There was no one to threaten him, to bring out how good he really was. How many people even know Larry Holmes? How many people know Ali, Frazier, Foreman? The last 3 showed greatness because they were tested. And I think Holmes would be mentioned with all of them if he ever had some competition in his prime.

We may have the same thing here in horse racing. I dont trust Lava Man to run well at Churchill. I dont trust this horse when he has to travel distances. And will that be Bernardini's only competition?

If Bernardini would have gone at Churchill and the Belmont like Smarty Jones, and lost like Smarty Jones did after being doubled teamed and set up. Then I would be more impressed. At least I could say the horse got pushed to the limit and never gave in... That it took Rock Hard Ten AND Jerry Bailey's suicidal act on Eddington to defeat him. If he was absolutely weighted down (the real meaning of handicap) and have a spectacular stretch battle against a once winning Perfect Drift I could say I saw something. And the comparison made is Bernardini beat a beatup Brother Derek in the Preakness...?

But it is NOT the horse's fault that I cant annoint him. Right runner, wrong time. I hope not. But the shed calls, so I personally will never know how good the horse really is. This is really what absolutely sucks. He is gone after the BCC. So all the people who like family trees can play little games with generational charts instead of watching the greatness of an athlete on the track. "I cant wait to see his babies to... uhhhhh, have babies?", please shoot these people somebody. They destroy RACING ON A TRACK.
Just hoping the BCC shows me something more than 4 horse fields and no competition so that the animal can show us how good he really is.

What may actually have worked against this horse sadly is Barbaro's breakdown.

[Betsy]

That's a silly comment...

I am not a Bernardini hater, I actually made a good amount of money on him in the Preakness, it was tragic, but I cashed hard on him in the Preakness. He's the best horse in training, that I have no doubt, but he's had everything his own way and very little competition. That track was fast yesterday and the opening quarter still boggles my mind, but to say that he had fast mid quarters, well I sure hope so. I don't get the lavish amount of praise put on him for not doing a whole lot right now, he's a very good horse, but he's not a Ghostzapper or Mineshaft yet. Jerry Bailey even made the comment yesterday that it looked like he had to get after Bernardini to put away WB, I didn't notice that, but imagine if he has to do that 2-3 times in the Classic, no one can really say with certainty how he'll react, that's all that I am saying. If you put a large win bet on this horse in the BCC, you are taking a risk I don't think will be worth the odds, I'll use him in exotics and hope he runs out, not likely, but I wouldn't take that kind of large win bet risk on him, because he has not proven himself in that situation...

Jerry Bailey thought that Castellano had to work on Bernardini? I was at the track, and I admit that I initially thought that was true. Later, when I read the quotes, I realized that it wasn't that Bernardini had to work harder, Castellano just waited that long to ask the colt. I think Tom is quoted as saying he probably waited too long, lol. When I saw the replay, it was apparent that Bernardini moved easily past Wandering Boy - Castellano didn't have to work a bit.

[Revolution]

If Bernardini wins the Classic- HE'S THE BEST HORSE SINCE GHOSTZAPPER AT THE CLASSIC DIRT DISTANCES. But he's gotta win the Classic.

he is better than ghostzapper. this is a three year old doing this. he just has much better action and unlike ghostzapper, he races every few weeks. this horse is getting faster and he has not been asked for anything.

[Pointg5]

he is better than ghostzapper. this is a three year old doing this. he just has much better action and unlike ghostzapper, he races every few weeks.

I won't debate the action, but Bernardini has had his races spaced, he's not run every couple of weeks...

[Slewbopper]

I disagree with it not being fast, it wasn't a total speedway, but it was playing fast, HH set a stakes record in the Vosburgh and the same level Allow Optional Claimers ran the mile fraction a second slower yesterday..
--------------------------------------------------------------------

It was the first time the race has been run at 6 furlongs, so of course it was a stake record.

[blackthroatedwind]

Not the first time at 6F but about the third so your point is well taken.

[Pointg5]

I disagree with it not being fast, it wasn't a total speedway, but it was playing fast, HH set a stakes record in the Vosburgh and the same level Allow Optional Claimers ran the mile fraction a second slower yesterday..
--------------------------------------------------------------------

It was the first time the race has been run at 6 furlongs, so of course it was a stake record.

I didn't realize that, well that doesn't give much evidence then, so I'll take that back. For some reason I kept thinking it was at 7f, but they said on TV that it was a Stakes Record, sort of misrepresents it, but that's my fault for listening to one of them...

[Coach Pants]

Impressive win. Sorry i'm not overdramatic.

[kentuckyrosesinmay]

Bernardini looks great. Not as good as Mineshaft or LITF imo. I like their running styles much more. But again... thats me.
Bottom line: The horse has not been pushed. I hope he gets his chance to show how good he is.

Reminds me of Larry Holmes in boxing except unlike Larry, he will retire early. Holmes was a great fighter but he boxed AT THE WRONG TIME. There was no one to threaten him, to bring out how good he really was. How many people even know Larry Holmes? How many people know Ali, Frazier, Foreman? The last 3 showed greatness because they were tested. And I think Holmes would be mentioned with all of them if he ever had some competition in his prime.

We may have the same thing here in horse racing. I dont trust Lava Man to run well at Churchill. I dont trust this horse when he has to travel distances. And will that be Bernardini's only competition?

If Bernardini would have gone at Churchill and the Belmont like Smarty Jones, and lost like Smarty Jones did after being doubled teamed and set up. Then I would be more impressed. At least I could say the horse got pushed to the limit and never gave in... That it took Rock Hard Ten AND Jerry Bailey's suicidal act on Eddington to defeat him. If he was absolutely weighted down (the real meaning of handicap) and have a spectacular stretch battle against a once winning Perfect Drift I could say I saw something. And the comparison made is Bernardini beat a beatup Brother Derek in the Preakness...?

But it is NOT the horse's fault that I cant annoint him. Right runner, wrong time. I hope not. But the shed calls, so I personally will never know how good the horse really is. This is really what absolutely sucks. He is gone after the BCC. So all the people who like family trees can play little games with generational charts instead of watching the greatness of an athlete on the track. "I cant wait to see his babies to... uhhhhh, have babies?", please shoot these people somebody. They destroy RACING ON A TRACK.
Just hoping the BCC shows me something more than 4 horse fields and no competition so that the animal can show us how good he really is.

What may actually have worked against this horse sadly is Barbaro's breakdown.

Smarty Jones isn't even in the same league as Bernardini. Bernardini would crush Smarty Jones. Bernardini is a better mover, bigger, faster, better built, and more talented than Smarty Jones. This horse is the best horse since Spectacular Bid. If he wins the BC Classic, he will be #1 on my greatest of all time list. 3 year olds don't crush older horses like he did in the JCGC without even being hit with the whip. Wanderin Boy is no pushover. Invasor was all out to beat Wanderin Boy in the Pimlico Special and Bernardini ran by Wanderin Boy with utmost ease even though he let Wanderin Boy crawl through a 25 opening furlong. I don't need to see the horse run face to face with another horse. I know what he is. A horse that has the fire in his eyes like he does will win the battle. He will literally crush his opponent when they look him in the eye. He will turn them back and make them falter. Bernardini is one of the best moving horses that I have ever seen. In fact, he may bet the best. The competition is ducking the horse. They are afraid of him. Even Lava Man's connections said that Bernardini was scary. He is scary. There is no other way to put it. And he gets better with every race.

He probably won't be headed until he faces Discreet Cat in the Dubai World Cup next year. However, even Discreet Cat won't be a match for this horse at a mile and a quarter. The truth is that Bernardini may never get headed because he is just too good. And yes, I bank on both of them being in the Dubai World Cup if both remain healthy. I really don't think that Bernardini will retire next year.

[mclem10011]

A day of impressive performances, I agree about Gomez's great ride on Aussie Rules, magnificent! Toughest trip of the day would have to go to Prado on Frost Dawn, total box in on the rail, gonna be watching that one next time out, with hopefully a better trip. Bernardini of course didn't get a true test, he's a great horse no question, just can't wait to he how he performs when other quality horses take a run at em. I think he will shine on BC day, but the competition level will be a bigger test than lately, if ever for him.I still so wish we could have seen that stretch run with him and Barbaro, it would have been fantastic IMO.
I think also Lava Man is the real deal, he's done everything he's been ask to do this year, and yes he was hit with the stick down the lane, as C-Nak said just to keep his mind on business. I feel he could have beaten this more impressive field (than Bernardini's competition) whether Corey when to the whip or not. I did think Brother Derek ran a much better race than I thought he would have, but he wasn't getting to Lava Man. Yes he will have to run better in Kentucky, everyone will have to step up their collective games to attempt to challenge Bernardini, but Lava Man has earned respect.
Henny Hughs was also very strong, and is ultra class. English Channel's rabbit did what it's was meant to do, another strong performance though from EC.
It was Pletcher's day, just an amazing stable this guy has built!
Can't wait to see next week, one of my fav's, the late kickin speedball that is Gorella, hope nobody has forgotten about her, she'll be a force on BC day as well IMO.

[BellamyRd.]

The greatest racehorse that I have ever seen. God, what a freak! He is going to annihilate the BC Classic field!

Lava Man was spectacular once again, as was Aragorn and Henny Hughes. Awesome day of racing! I can't wait until BC Day!!!

get a life!

[Pointg5]

Smarty Jones isn't even in the same league as Bernardini. Bernardini would crush Smarty Jones. Bernardini is a better mover, bigger, faster, better built, and more talented than Smarty Jones. This horse is the best horse since Spectacular Bid. If he wins the BC Classic, he will be #1 on my greatest of all time list. 3 year olds don't crush older horses like he did in the JCGC without even being hit with the whip. Wanderin Boy is no pushover. Invasor was all out to beat Wanderin Boy in the Pimlico Special and Bernardini ran by Wanderin Boy with utmost ease even though he let Wanderin Boy crawl through a 25 opening furlong. I don't need to see the horse run face to face with another horse. I know what he is. A horse that has the fire in his eyes like he does will win the battle. He will literally crush his opponent when they look him in the eye. He will turn them back and make them falter. Bernardini is one of the best moving horses that I have ever seen. In fact, he may bet the best. The competition is ducking the horse. They are afraid of him. Even Lava Man's connections said that Bernardini was scary. He is scary. There is no other way to put it. And he gets better with every race.

He probably won't be headed until he faces Discreet Cat in the Dubai World Cup next year. However, even Discreet Cat won't be a match for this horse at a mile and a quarter. The truth is that Bernardini may never get headed because he is just too good. And yes, I bank on both of them being in the Dubai World Cup if both remain healthy. I really don't think that Bernardini will retire next year.


Yeah, Smarty wasn't nearly as good as Bernardini, he only got hammered by two G1 winners through mind blowing fractions that left them in the dust only to have him run down by a length...

Bernardini fans are morphing UK Basketball fans, I admire and respect their program, because they are elite, but their fans are so misguided and over the top I can't stand them...

[Downthestretch55]

http://www.barbaralivingston.com/gallery/ontrack/Bernardini4BLa

[Coach Pants]

Yeah, Smarty wasn't nearly as good as Bernardini, he only got hammered by two G1 winners through mind blowing fractions that left them in the dust only to have him run down by a length...

Bernardini fans are morphing UK Basketball fans, I admire and respect their program, because they are elite, but their fans are so misguided and over the top I can't stand them...

You can't compare UK to Bernardini. He actually wins when it matters. :D

[kentuckyrosesinmay]

http://www.barbaralivingston.com/gallery/ontrack/Bernardini4BLa

Thanks DTS. He is a beautiful, beautiful horse. I'm in complete awe of him. I've fallen head over heals for this horse. LOL. He is perfect in every racehorse aspect imaginable.

[Pedigree Ann]

You can't compare UK to Bernardini. He actually wins when it matters. :D

What are you, some fan of that team in Lousyville? <Grin>

UK MS 1977, UK PhD 1986, wife of UK professor. I lived through a couple of NCAA championships.

[kentuckyrosesinmay]

get a life!

I have a life. Quite a good one actually. In fact, I was stressed out for awhile, but I finally became happy again over the past few days...

[Bold Reasoning]

It was a decent performance. The mid fractions were solid but they were coming off some really slow initial fractions. And he didn't come home in anything riveting.

There's no way Bernardini would have beaten Ghostzapper in the BC Classic. No way. Or St. Liam, or Roses in May. He has an easy chance to do it compared with what other 3 year olds have faced in the Classic. He's been very lucky.

That might change soon depending on what Romans does with Bright One. Or the sheiks do with Discreet Cat. Bright One ran 7th as the favorite in the Indiana Derby yesterday.:D

[ateamstupid]

That's a silly comment...

I am not a Bernardini hater, I actually made a good amount of money on him in the Preakness, it was tragic, but I cashed hard on him in the Preakness. He's the best horse in training, that I have no doubt, but he's had everything his own way and very little competition. That track was fast yesterday and the opening quarter still boggles my mind, but to say that he had fast mid quarters, well I sure hope so. I don't get the lavish amount of praise put on him for not doing a whole lot right now, he's a very good horse, but he's not a Ghostzapper or Mineshaft yet. Jerry Bailey even made the comment yesterday that it looked like he had to get after Bernardini to put away WB, I didn't notice that, but imagine if he has to do that 2-3 times in the Classic, no one can really say with certainty how he'll react, that's all that I am saying. If you put a large win bet on this horse in the BCC, you are taking a risk I don't think will be worth the odds, I'll use him in exotics and hope he runs out, not likely, but I wouldn't take that kind of large win bet risk on him, because he has not proven himself in that situation...

Wait, so because Jerry Bailey said it, it's true? You said yourself that you didn't notice it, but that's negated by Jerry Bailey saying it?

Let's take a look at the Equibase comment..

"BERNARDINI raced close up outside while in hand, was sent after pacesetter WANDERIN BOY midway on the second turn, collared that rival entering the stretch, quickly drew clear from that rival and galloped away under wraps."

Sounds like Javier had to work his ass off.

I'll take my own eyes and the Equibase people over anything Jerry Bailey says any day of the week.

If you want to say he beat nobody, that's fine. That's valid. But don't say he had to work hard to do it. That's just inaccurate.

[Downthestretch55]

Thanks DTS. He is a beautiful, beautiful horse. I'm in complete awe of him. I've fallen head over heals for this horse. LOL. He is perfect in every racehorse aspect imaginable.
KY Rose,
At times I have a difficult time trying to figure what's going on in some folks' heads.
Like, we wait, wait, wish and hope that one like this comes along.
Then they bash.
Just enjoy this one.
Berna's don't come along that often.
If they don't appreciate him, it's really not your or my problem.
Their bashing will keep them from seeing.
He's the real deal. Finally, after all this time.
DTS

[kentuckyrosesinmay]

KY Rose,
At times I have a difficult time trying to figure what's going on in some folks' heads.
Like, we wait, wait, wish and hope that one like this comes along.
Then they bash.
Just enjoy this one.
Berna's don't come along that often.
If they don't appreciate him, it's really not your or my problem.
Their bashing will keep them from seeing.
He's the real deal. Finally, after all this time.
DTS

Yep, he's the one that fans like you and I have been waiting for...

[Betsy]

Wait, so because Jerry Bailey said it, it's true? You said yourself that you didn't notice it, but that's negated by Jerry Bailey saying it?

Let's take a look at the Equibase comment..

"BERNARDINI raced close up outside while in hand, was sent after pacesetter WANDERIN BOY midway on the second turn, collared that rival entering the stretch, quickly drew clear from that rival and galloped away under wraps."

Sounds like Javier had to work his ass off.

I'll take my own eyes and the Equibase people over anything Jerry Bailey says any day of the week.

If you want to say he beat nobody, that's fine. That's valid. But don't say he had to work hard to do it. That's just inaccurate.

And JC is quoted as saying that he had a ton of horse.......Prado is quoted as saying that Bernardini had him at any time. The only reason it looked like Bernardini (if indeed it looked it at all) was working is because Javier didn't ask him unti relatively late in the race (for him). He's riding Bernardini brilliantly - I love his quote about how he wanted to get his colt ready for the Classic, when there will be more pace. I prefer Bernardini running at a target - yesterday was a good race for him in that regard.

[Coach Pants]

KY Rose,
At times I have a difficult time trying to figure what's going on in some folks' heads.
Like, we wait, wait, wish and hope that one like this comes along.
Then they bash.
Just enjoy this one.
Berna's don't come along that often.
If they don't appreciate him, it's really not your or my problem.
Their bashing will keep them from seeing.
He's the real deal. Finally, after all this time.
DTS
Yep, he's the one that fans like you and I have been waiting for...

Offs. If the horse is what we've been waiting for for so long then why hasn't he been setting track and race records? It's not like he's had to deal with a 12 horse field and face traffic trouble. Yes he's a great horse but you two are acting like he's the greatest thing since sliced bread.

There are still questions and they're going to be answered but this know-it-all attitude is getting borderline retarded. The way some people are going overboard about this horse the BCC might as well be cancelled. He's already won it!

[Downthestretch55]

Offs. If the horse is what we've been waiting for for so long then why hasn't he been setting track and race records? It's not like he's had to deal with a 12 horse field and face traffic trouble. Yes he's a great horse but you two are acting like he's the greatest thing since sliced bread.

There are still questions and they're going to be answered but this know-it-all attitude is getting borderline retarded. The way some people are going overboard about this horse the BCC might as well be cancelled. He's already won it!
Pillow Poop,
We'll just have to wait and see then.
Retarded?
I must be missing something.
When your horse is ahead by, ummm ...how many lengths in the lane?
are you saying that he needs to be whipped to get the clock?
Humble you're not.
Appreciative neither.
Keep to your attitude and you'll miss the greatness.
Grind your sorry ax somewhere else.

[kentuckyrosesinmay]

Offs. If the horse is what we've been waiting for for so long then why hasn't he been setting track and race records? It's not like he's had to deal with a 12 horse field and face traffic trouble. Yes he's a great horse but you two are acting like he's the greatest thing since sliced bread.

There are still questions and they're going to be answered but this know-it-all attitude is getting borderline retarded. The way some people are going overboard about this horse the BCC might as well be cancelled. He's already won it!

Well, his times are great, he is improving, and his best is yet to come. When a three year old that has been so dominate all year long goes out there and beats older horses like he did, then the horse is GREAT.

I expect to see the same results in the BC Classic.

And yes, he is the greatest thing since sliced bread. LOL.:D

[Coach Pants]

Pillow Poop,
We'll just have to wait and see then.
Retarded?
I must be missing something.
When your horse is ahead by, ummm ...how many lengths in the lane?
are you saying that he needs to be whipped to get the clock?
Humble you're not.
Appreciative neither.
Keep to your attitude and you'll miss the greatness.
Grind your sorry ax somewhere else.

Yoda, i'm not.
Is beatable, Bernardini.
the stretch, could have trouble down
down it, since he's so used to galloping
Have plenty of company down it, he could
If you think he will win easily, bet the farm
you're probably just a blowhard, Of course

[Coach Pants]

Well, his times are great, he is improving, and his best is yet to come. When a three year old that has been so dominate all year long goes out there and beats older horses like he did, then the horse is GREAT.

I expect to see the same results in the BC Classic.

And yes, he is the greatest thing since sliced bread. LOL.:D
He beat three horses. Wow.

[kentuckyrosesinmay]

He beat three horses. Wow.

He beat Wanderin Boy, who Invasor was all out to beat in the Pimlico Special. Bernardini ran by WB quite easily after he let WB set slow early fractions. Of course, the Pimlico Special wasn't quite as long as the JCGC.

[Coach Pants]

He beat Wanderin Boy, who Invasor was all out to beat in the Pimlico Special. Bernardini ran by WB quite easily after he let WB set slow early fractions. Of course, the Pimlico Special wasn't quite as long as the JCGC.
Actually the second quarter was pretty brisk because he was feeling the pressure of a greater steed to his outside.

I just have questions about his ability to handle late pressure. He might not face it in the BCC but IF Lava Man ships and doesn't throw in a clunker, then you'll definitely see an epic battle between the two. I've been a doubter of LM but he really showed me something yesterday and he's got me excited about the BCC. It's not Bernardini's to lose now.

[Downthestretch55]

Yoda, i'm not.
Is beatable, Bernardini.
the stretch, could have trouble down
down it, since he's so used to galloping
Have plenty of company down it, he could
If you think he will win easily, bet the farm
you're probably just a blowhard, Of course
Ahh Sith,
What was done to the farm by the storm troopers will not be forgotten.
Then came Jabba, Jabba, Jabba.
Shame it is what they did to Hans. Shame it is.
"Blowhard?" Evil side...best words you can find, yes?
Light sabers haven't come out yet.
Berna is a mighty one, deny all you will.

[Danzig]

when, if, bernardini wins the bcc, than i might compare him to the best of the last 30 years. but some of those who are on that list beat other great horses to get there! bernardini is no affirmed, since he has had no alydar to beat, the older horses he defeated saturday are not the same caliber as those that ap indy beat in the classic. heck, they aren't even of the calibre that henny beat yesterday! mr hughes beat the reigning bc sprint winner, among others, and on that ones 'home' track.

secretariat had sham, and then fort marcy, affirmed had his alydar, sunday silence his easy goer (and vice versa!)...a great horse, a true great, beats the best--it's why damascus' victory over buckpasser and dr fager is considered the race of the century. don't have the competition to beat, than you beat the clock.
gz had a lot of detractors til after the bcc-his first at that distance, and won in style over the best, and with the stakes record to boot.

henny had a heck of a race. so did lava man for that matter! i can imagine the scathing remarks had lava man met and defeated the type of field that bernardini met!!

lol
and now i'll be called a 'hater'. can't have any discussion about this horse without being put in box 'a' or box 'b'.

[ateamstupid]

Actually the second quarter was pretty brisk because he was feeling the pressure of a greater steed to his outside.

I just have questions about his ability to handle late pressure. He might not face it in the BCC but IF Lava Man ships and doesn't throw in a clunker, then you'll definitely see an epic battle between the two. I've been a doubter of LM but he really showed me something yesterday and he's got me excited about the BCC. It's not Bernardini's to lose now.

So wait. Lava Man "really showed you something" in beating BROTHER DEREK at nine furlongs by 2 1/4 under urging, but Bernardini beating Wanderin Boy by 6 3/4 at ten panels in a gallop was nothing? Way to go.

[VictoryGallop]

I think this is a very nice horse and he ran a nice race in the preakness. That was his last real race, he has faced small fields and some nice horses. I await the classic when he has to run in a race where there are more than five horses and is a quality field. He is NOT Barbaro !!!!!

[Coach Pants]

So wait. Lava Man "really showed you something" in beating BROTHER DEREK at nine furlongs by 2 1/4 under urging, but Bernardini beating Wanderin Boy by 6 3/4 at ten panels in a gallop was nothing? Way to go.
In a handicap where he's giving 9lbs hell yes he showed me something. And i'll take a horse that fights to win over one that hasn't been looked in the eye or asked down the stretch anyday. Especially when the odds will be much better with the proven fighter.

[Danzig]

So wait. Lava Man "really showed you something" in beating BROTHER DEREK at nine furlongs by 2 1/4 under urging, but Bernardini beating Wanderin Boy by 6 3/4 at ten panels in a gallop was nothing? Way to go.

lava has continued to run and win all year. a lot of people thought he might not win based on closer races earlier this year, and now going 10f while carrying 126 and giving weight. as scuds pointed out in his post yesterday, that might mean the difference. it didn't. was also bro dereks first loss at that track i believe.

[Danzig]

I think this is a very nice horse and he ran a nice race in the preakness. That was his last real race, he has faced small fields and some nice horses. I await the classic when he has to run in a race where there are more than five horses and is a quality field. He is NOT Barbaro !!!!!
no, he's not barbaro. but he's DEFINITELY bernardini. they're both good, and neither should be put down in order to lift the other.
i thought the post where someone wrote 'barbaro who?' was in poor taste.

[kentuckyrosesinmay]

It is Bernardini's race to lose at this point, but I will admit that Lava Man is a very, very good horse as well. I have nothing but good to say about LM. He is my favorite horse running right now besides Bernie. However, I don't think that Lava Man is in the same league as Bernie. In fact, I don't think any horse can run with Bernie in the world right now at a mile and a quarter. It wouldn't surprise me if LM finished out the exacta in the BC Classic though. Bernie is so fast that he just blows by his opponents. IMO, Lava Man won't ever see him coming.

[ateamstupid]

In a handicap where he's giving 9lbs hell yes he showed me something. And i'll take a horse that fights to win over one that hasn't been looked in the eye or asked down the stretch anyday. Especially when the odds will be much better with the proven fighter.

Whose fault is it that Bernardini never gets looked in the eye, when Lava Man is life and death to beat the vaunted Brother Derek, Magnum, Super Frolic triumverate over and over again? Should Bernardini slow down and look horses in the eye like Seabiscuit? It's hilarious. You're criticizing him for being too fast. I'm sure if Bernardini had "looked in the eye" of Wanderin Boy or Bluegrass Cat or Sweetnorthernsaint and "fought to win," you'd all be praising him, right? Bull****. Everyone would be on their "he struggled to win" high horse. All this ****ing west coast horse does is beat up on the same tired nags all year long, and you want to give him more credit because he's a "fighter"? How about he's just slower than Bernardini? You really think Bernardini would've had to be urged to beat Brother Derek by 2 1/4?

[Pointg5]

Wait, so because Jerry Bailey said it, it's true? You said yourself that you didn't notice it, but that's negated by Jerry Bailey saying it?

Let's take a look at the Equibase comment..

"BERNARDINI raced close up outside while in hand, was sent after pacesetter WANDERIN BOY midway on the second turn, collared that rival entering the stretch, quickly drew clear from that rival and galloped away under wraps."

Sounds like Javier had to work his ass off.

I'll take my own eyes and the Equibase people over anything Jerry Bailey says any day of the week.

If you want to say he beat nobody, that's fine. That's valid. But don't say he had to work hard to do it. That's just inaccurate.


At no point was Bernardini ever in trouble of getting past WB, that was a forgone conclusion before they entered the gate, he's going to have more traffic and better horses to deal with in the BC, but he'll probably win anyway, he's good and there's not much that can beat him, other than Lava Man and David Junior and I am not sure they will be able to do it....My point is that everyone says he does things so easily, well he's very talented and he hasn't faced much, what happens when he's hooked, will he fold or show his class, at very low odds in the BC, I'll use him on top in exotics and p3's and p4's and hope he runs 2nd, but I would never make a large win bet on him, you can still make decent money in the BC even with heavy favorites. ...I had him at the best price, that was long before all of this insanity has gone on. He's very good and could be great, but I think people have short memories, what about a horse like GZ, Smarty Jones. What about Silver Charm, he only was a graded stake winner at 2,3,4, and 5 won the KY Derby, Preakness, Dubai World Cup. He ran a faster speed figure than Bernardini did and certainly against better competition.

[Danzig]

all the top horses dodge each other. all of them want only one chance to lose, and that's in the classic.

[SentToStud]

While I am not ready to annoint him one of the greatest, he is coming within reach. Look, his last few you are all right, he has run against mediocre fields, but this is because people are dodging him, the ultimate show of respect in horse racing. Look at the last two weeks in the handicap division. Indiana Derby, Hawthorne Gold Cup, Pegasus, Kentucky Cup Classic, Goodwood and next week the Meadowlands Cup. It's not like the horses aren't there, they just don't want to run against Bernardini. What does that tell you?

Tells me that Zito is a pretty sharp guy, getting 2d and 3d yesterday and picking up about a quarter million dollars or so for his owners from a race neither horse had a shot in hell of winning.

I'm really looking forward to seeing Bernardini having a tough challenge or overcome a bit of trouble.

[Coach Pants]

Whose fault is it that Bernardini never gets looked in the eye, when Lava Man is life and death to beat the vaunted Brother Derek, Magnum, Super Frolic triumverate over and over again? Should Bernardini slow down and look horses in the eye like Seabiscuit? It's hilarious. You're criticizing him for being too fast. I'm sure if Bernardini had "looked in the eye" of Wanderin Boy or Bluegrass Cat or Sweetnorthernsaint and "fought to win," you'd all be praising him, right? Bull****. Everyone would be on their "he struggled to win" high horse. All this ****ing west coast horse does is beat up on the same tired nags all year long, and you want to give him more credit because he's a "fighter"? How about he's just slower than Bernardini? You really think Bernardini would've had to be urged to beat Brother Derek by 2 1/4?
If you're this upset over a differing opinion I can only imagine what you would be like at the BCC if Bern loses. It's just an opinion, man!!

I've seen too many sure things not come through to get behind the horse so passionately like some of you have. No pun intended there.

Just look at the Titans-Colts right now. Who woulda thunk that the Titans would be leading late in the fourth?

The BCC is where he's most vulnerable. He's a play against at extremely short odds. I've never denied the horse is great. This is my opinion purely from a gambling perspective. Either he's beatable or the race is unbettable outside of big exotic tickets.

[Sightseek]

The competition Bernardini faced yesterday may have been weak, but I think anyone who was there yesterday knew we were seeing something special.

[pgardn]

Smarty Jones isn't even in the same league as Bernardini. Bernardini would crush Smarty Jones. Bernardini is a better mover, bigger, faster, better built, and more talented than Smarty Jones.

1.MOver yes. Out of the gate to get position, not even close with Smarty.
2.bigger yes, but what does that have to do with the price of walnuts?
3.faster NOOOOOO. NO flippin way.
4.better built yes, but what does that have to do with the price of walnuts?
5.more talented. No way to tell, he has not been tested like Smarty. Three grueling triple crown races against a much better 3 yo old group. Talent includes heart. Again not Bernardinis fault.

So basically because you like how the horse looks, therefore he is better.

Bonzo post. There have been quite a few horses that looked like crap that were great runners. Too much into the visuals, forget performance.

[kentuckyrosesinmay]

1.MOver yes. Out of the gate to get position, not even close with Smarty.
2.bigger yes, but what does that have to do with the price of walnuts?
3.faster NOOOOOO. NO flippin way.
4.better built yes, but what does that have to do with the price of walnuts?
5.more talented. No way to tell, he has not been tested like Smarty. Three grueling triple crown races against a much better 3 yo old group. Talent includes heart. Again not Bernardinis fault.

So basically because you like how the horse looks, therefore he is better.

Bonzo post. There have been quite a few horses that looked like crap that were great runners. Too much into the visuals, forget performance.

I'm into the way that both horses moved and how both horses performed on the track. You can tell the quality of the horse by watching them move and run in races. IMO, Bernardini was definitely better. IMO, Smarty Jones doesn't even compare to Bernardini. In fact, I also think that Barbaro, Afleet Alex, and Point Given were better horses than Smarty Jones. And I think that Bernardini could have beaten all of them, although Point Given may could have given him a run for his money. Point Given was also another very talented animal.

This is really pointless.

[sumitas]

the luck part for Bernie has been unlucky for his foes. Barbaro and Bluegrass Cat both suffering career ending injuries during the race. thus, these 2 were eliminated from each race and future challenges to him as well.

[hoovesupsideyourhead]

that was a ok run by dini..after he wins the bc then he will get the respect from those who think hes not the goods ..all hes ever done is win..easy...he was going to get a gut check..from bluegrass..didnt happen..dylan t..didint happen..so when they find someone to go with him we will see...dont think that thiers any horse in the usa that can beat him..discreet cat...hmm discreet entry......good job yankees..your the green monkey of baseball..

[pgardn]

ANd I was a nonbeliever in Smarty to begin with. Here was the process.

1. Must win the Arkansas to get into the Derby, the pressure is on, will he fold, no. I thought he would.
2. The Derby. Sloppy track, could be a fluke. The field destroyed.
3. Preakness. Some of the good runners holding off till the Belmont. Crushes the field. Im saying Ok he is good.
4. BELMONT: Double teamed by two very very good horses, he crushes them both, he HOLDS form grudgingly letting Birdstone by, in one of the most wonderful displays of courage I have ever seen by a horse.

Smarty JOnes was shaking in his stall after the race. He could barely stand. The horse was magical. Small, breeding questionable compared to many others, so some people blow the performance off. THAT BELMONT WAS ONE OF THE GREATEST DISPLAYS OF EFFORT EVER.

Smarty is annointed by Pope pgardn at that point. One loss in his career. His last. AT 1 1/2 miles. Dont diss my Smarty. He got the chance to show his stuff. Lets hope Bernardini gets that chance by please letting him run at Four... This is just not a deep BCC year. Megs, Congaree, Pleasantly Perfect, a younger Perfect Drift, where are you...

[pgardn]

I'm into the way that both horses moved and how both horses performed on the track. You can tell the quality of the horse by watching them move and run in races. IMO, Bernardini was definitely better. IMO, Smarty Jones doesn't even compare to Bernardini. In fact, I also think that Barbaro, Afleet Alex, and Point Given were better horses than Smarty Jones. And I think that Bernardini could have beaten all of them, although Point Given may could have given him a run for his money. Point Given was also another very talented animal.

This is really pointless.

Again into the looks. By your posts only Point Given could possibly be given the title. Point Given was a horribly unattentive horse in his early 3's. His derby was bad, showed his lack a complete lack of why he is on the track. His Preakness was a again sloppy, as he enjoyed looking at the crowd while winning. His Belmont was awesome. They got him to understand what he was supposed to do. And then his races after that were all very professional. So of course because he was big, bred well you think he moved well. Watch the Derby and the Preakness again and you will see how raw PG was at that time.

We are clearly wearing diff lenses and put emphasis on a very different part of the sport. I dont give a flying flip about how pretty a coat, or how well muscled a horse is until he has to show guts. Thats the difference here.

[kentuckyrosesinmay]

ANd I was a nonbeliever in Smarty to begin with. Here was the process.

1. Must win the Arkansas to get into the Derby, the pressure is on, will he fold, no. I thought he would.
2. The Derby. Sloppy track, could be a fluke. The field destroyed.
3. Preakness. Some of the good runners holding off till the Belmont. Crushes the field. Im saying Ok he is good.
4. BELMONT: Double teamed by two very very good horses, he crushes them both, he HOLDS form grudgingly letting Birdstone by, in one of the most wonderful displays of courage I have ever seen by a horse.

Smarty JOnes was shaking in his stall after the race. He could barely stand. The horse was magical. Small, breeding questionable compared to many others, so some people blow the performance off. THAT BELMONT WAS ONE OF THE GREATEST DISPLAYS OF EFFORT EVER.

Smarty is annointed by Pope pgardn at that point. One loss in his career. His last. AT 1 1/2 miles. Dont diss my Smarty. He got the chance to show his stuff. Lets hope Bernardini gets that chance by please letting him run at Four... This is just not a deep BCC year. Megs, Congaree, Pleasantly Perfect, a younger Perfect Drift, where are you...

I wasn't dissing Smarty. I loved the horse too, but I was making the observation that he just wasn't as good as some of these other horses...

Oh, but we have Invasor, Sun King, Lava Man, and David Junior.

[kentuckyrosesinmay]

Again into the looks. By your posts only Point Given could possibly be given the title. Point Given was a horribly unattentive horse in his early 3's. His derby was bad, showed his lack a complete lack of why he is on the track. His Preakness was a again sloppy, as he enjoyed looking at the crowd while winning. His Belmont was awesome. They got him to understand what he was supposed to do. And then his races after that were all very professional. So of course because he was big, bred well you think he moved well. Watch the Derby and the Preakness again and you will see how raw PG was at that time.

We are clearly wearing diff lenses and put emphasis on a very different part of the sport. I dont give a flying flip about how pretty a coat, or how well muscled a horse is until he has to show guts. Thats the difference here.

I never said that PG moved well. I said that he was a better horse than Smarty Jones. It is all about how the horses perform on the racetrack. That is why I don't understand how people can't recognize how great of a horse Bernardini is. His performances are flawless.

[pgardn]

I never said that PG moved well. I said that he was a better horse than Smarty Jones. It is all about how the horses perform on the racetrack. That is why I don't understand how people can't recognize how great of a horse Bernardini is. His performances are flawless.

Yes they are. Flawless. The horse looks like the real deal. But I personally have another criteria for greatness, not just talented. I hope he gets his chance to show it. You say he is Tiger Woods. I say he has not faced enough good competition to be recognized as such.

Run him at 4. Please. Otherwise. Larry Holmes. For those of you that used to be, or are still into boxing. A great boxer. But never put up as the close to the best. Because he boxed at the wrong time. Again not Larry/horses fault. And there is no way I put the horses you mentioned that might be in the BCC at the same talent level as Congaree, Pleasantly Perfect, and Megs. No way. All of these horses were warriors and proved so numerous times.

[Cannon Shell]

Yes they are. Flawless. The horse looks like the real deal. But I personally have another criteria for greatness, not just talented. I hope he gets his chance to show it. You say he is Tiger Woods. I say he has not faced enough good competition to be recognized as such.

Run him at 4. Please. Otherwise. Larry Holmes. For those of you that used to be, or are still into boxing. A great boxer. But never put up as the close to the best. Because he boxed at the wrong time. Again not Larry/horses fault. And there is no way I put the horses you mentioned that might be in the BCC at the same talent level as Congaree, Pleasantly Perfect, and Megs. No way. All of these horses were warriors and proved so numerous times.


Pleasantly Perfect made 17 starts over 3 campaigns. Not exactly a warrior schedule.

[pgardn]

Pleasantly Perfect made 17 starts over 3 campaigns. Not exactly a warrior schedule.


And look at the level of those races and the competion. He battled the best, even when he was too old to stay with them. Bernardini wont even run at 4.

[Cannon Shell]

And look at the level of those races and the competion. He battled the best, even when he was too old to stay with them. Bernardini wont even run at 4.


True and true

[ateamstupid]

I love Smarty. But he's not in Bernardini's class.

[Downthestretch55]

I love Smarty. But he's not in Bernardini's class.
Well said Ateam.
Let's just enjoy this one.

[ateamstupid]

Well said Ateam.
Let's just enjoy this one.

That's impossible for some of these people. Enjoy a tremendous horse? No.. Can't do that. We have to tear him apart and wait for the next tremendous horse.. So we can.. You know.. Tear that one apart.

[Downthestretch55]

That's impossible for some of these people. Enjoy a tremendous horse? No.. Can't do that. We have to tear him apart and wait for the next tremendous horse.. So we can.. You know.. Tear that one apart.
Good you see it.
He's not Larry Holmes.
Nor dare I say, the next Secretariat.
Some of these folks remind me of my uncle.
He'd chug two glasses of metamucile before going to bed.
Wake up in the morning and go for the ex-lax.
Chug it down with coffee and a cigar or two while sitting on the can.
Waiting and waiting.
Pushing and pushing.
Uhh! Uhh!!!
Maybe if he just relaxed and let it happen, it would have happened.
My guess is that he just tried too hard to make it that way.
To make a long story short, he died with a frown on his face. Nothing the funeral director could do would make him look comfortable in his coffin.
Yup!
Terminal constipation.
Moral of story...this sh-t will kill ya.

[Pointg5]

We need Repent to go Smarty on Bernardini, that will send some over the top...

Come on Repent, you are great at this, you can do it, I remember in the Spring of 2004, your Smarty rants were things of beauty...

[Downthestretch55]

We need Repent to go Smarty on Bernardini, that will send some over the top...

Come on Repent, you are great at this, you can do it, I remember in the Spring of 2004, your Smarty rants were things of beauty...
Actually, I like Repent. Never a question as to where he stands (or sits).
So, Point, why do you need him to speak for you?
UMM, ERR, HUH???
Fight your own battles.
Your asking for Repent to chime in is ridiculous as Nostra's brother going against Oracle.
No contest.

[Pointg5]

Actually, I like Repent. Never a question as to where he stands (or sits).
So, Point, why do you need him to speak for you?
UMM, ERR, HUH???
Fight your own battles.
Your asking for Repent to chime in is ridiculous as Nostra's brother going against Oracle.
No contest.

I can't do it the justice that Repent can, I was a big fan of Smarty and he had me seething behind the keyboard more than once with his rants. I am not in the same league with what he can come up with, he's much better, he'll have the Bernardini cheerleaders crying, no doubt about it...

[Downthestretch55]

I can't do it the justice that Repent can, I was a big fan of Smarty and he had me seething behind the keyboard more than once with his rants. I am not in the same league with what he can come up with, he's much better, he'll have the Bernardini cheerleaders crying, no doubt about it...
Hey,
I was at Smarty's Belmont. It's burned in my memory.
I loved that one. The only ones that saved that day for me were Board Elligible and Fire Slam. Do I hate smarty cause he was ganged? No. Gutsy!
Now it's time to live in the now.
Berna is the best we've had in quite a while.
'Nuf said.

[ateamstupid]

We need Repent to go Smarty on Bernardini, that will send some over the top...

Come on Repent, you are great at this, you can do it, I remember in the Spring of 2004, your Smarty rants were things of beauty...

Repent loves Bernardini. Sorry.

[pgardn]

I love Smarty. But he's not in Bernardini's class.

I most vehmently disagree at this point. I need more.

[Revolution]

bernardini would destroy smarty jones. would not be competitive. this is an incredible specimen. he is perfectly bred and his action is flawless.

[1st_Saturday_in_May]

Instead of sitting around and waiting for Bernardini to lose, why cant some people just enjoy whats right in front of them?

[pgardn]

Instead of sitting around and waiting for Bernardini to lose, why cant some people just enjoy whats right in front of them?


I want what is sitting right in front of us to show himself. Not destroy horrible 4 horse fields. That we have 4 horses running in a race like this clearly shows the level of competition. Nil. His most impressive race, the Preakness. For 3 year olds.

Smarty ran against much better horses and had a much more difficult schedule. Bernardini has got to waltz around thus far. Cmon folks he is not gonna be in a BC field with horses Like Roses in May, Ghostzapper, Congaree, Megs, Pleasantly Perfect. Jeez Louise. This has been a bad year. We started out nicely and horses have just gone down the tubes with injuries. I hope Lava Man can give him a go and they just bust each other up. But the horse dont travel. Im not holding my breath. Quit trying to sugar coat everything. The level of depth is cellophane thickness.

If Bernardini and Lava Man for some odd reason dont make it to the BCC, what have we got left, healthy, ready and top notch?

[ateamstupid]

I want what is sitting right in front of us to show himself. Not destroy horrible 4 horse fields. That we have 4 horses running in a race like this clearly shows the level of competition. Nil. His most impressive race, the Preakness. For 3 year olds.

Smarty ran against much better horses and had a much more difficult schedule. Bernardini has got to waltz around thus far. Cmon folks he is not gonna be in a BC field with horses Like Roses in May, Ghostzapper, Congaree, Megs, Pleasantly Perfect. Jeez Louise. This has been a bad year. We started out nicely and horses have just gone down the tubes with injuries. I hope Lava Man can give him a go and they just bust each other up. But the horse dont travel. Im not holding my breath. Quit trying to sugar coat everything. The level of depth is cellophane thickness.

If Bernardini and Lava Man for some odd reason dont make it to the BCC, what have we got left, healthy, ready and top notch?

So let me get this straight.. You're already writing off the BCC field, and pre-emptively discrediting Bernardini if he wins the BCC, because it's already a bad field in your opinion. Now I've heard everything.

This just in. There's a REASON that he's facing nobody. NO ONE WANTS TO FACE HIM.

Your attitude is everything that's wrong with the racewatching public. Rather than appreciate the type of horse that only comes along a few times in a life (if we're lucky), you'd rather sit back and knock the horse for something he cannot control and something that is mainly A RESULT OF HIS BRILLIANCE. There's absolutely no satisfying this type of racing "fan" unless we go dig up Secretariat, Seattle Slew, find Spectacular Bid, etc. and run them against this horse. Then if he loses, the "fan" will say "I told you so." It's a complete joke.

THIS IS SOMETHING I'VE LEARNED OVER THE YEARS AS A RACING FAN: NO MATTER HOW GOOD THE HORSE, THE "HE BEAT NOBODY" CROWD WILL ALWAYS EXIST.

It wouldn't matter if Pegasus came to life and won the BCC by 87 lengths. There would, without a doubt, be the "Yeah, but who did Pegasus beat?" sad sacks chiming in at every opportunity.

And I can't even respond to "Smarty ran against much better horses and had a much more difficult schedule" without laughing myself blue.

Yet what I find even more absurdly hilarious is that when Lava Man beats Super Frolic for the 22nd time, we get 1,000 new threads proclaiming this horse the greatest older male since Man O' War. Okay. It's real tough to stay within 40 miles of your home base and beat the same four or five horses all year long. Much tougher than doing what Bernardini has done.

It's ridiculous.

[Danzig]

I'm into the way that both horses moved and how both horses performed on the track. You can tell the quality of the horse by watching them move and run in races. IMO, Bernardini was definitely better. IMO, Smarty Jones doesn't even compare to Bernardini. In fact, I also think that Barbaro, Afleet Alex, and Point Given were better horses than Smarty Jones. And I think that Bernardini could have beaten all of them, although Point Given may could have given him a run for his money. Point Given was also another very talented animal.

This is really pointless.

it is pointless, which is why i wonder at the exercise. each horse was/is very good, each had or has his strong points. whether it be running up an unbeaten streak, winning on two surfaces, running in and winning 12f races, or beating older horses....but to say bernardini is 'definitely' better is an exercise in futility, as it can't be proven. altho you might take all those others over smarty, i'm sure many could make an argument that they would take smarty over all the others! or point given...or barbaro for that matter.

[Coach Pants]

it is pointless, which is why i wonder at the exercise. each horse was/is very good, each had or has his strong points. whether it be running up an unbeaten streak, winning on two surfaces, running in and winning 12f races, or beating older horses....but to say bernardini is 'definitely' better is an exercise in futility, as it can't be proven. altho you might take all those others over smarty, i'm sure many could make an argument that they would take smarty over all the others! or point given...or barbaro for that matter.
Don't forget Dollar Bill. :eek:

[Betsy]

Great post, Ateam; I couldn't agree more. But really, it's their problem.......or not, if this is how they get their jollies. Now I'm hearing that Bernardini's time was slow for the track? LOL That's why he got a 117 Beyer; that track was not that fast and Bernardini finished in a canter. What did they expect, a track record performance one race before the Breeders Cup? Should Castellano have hit him with the whip, race well in hand, to impress the fans?

Even some of the praise here is qualified - nice race, I would have liked to have seen him beat more than 3 horses. Interesting that the same argument used to defend Mineshaft (who I adore) -- that he was so good that horses ducked him- is being used to discredit Bernardini. What a joke -it's not like he's struggling to win, either. He's winning in breathtaking style and it's still not enough.

There's a huge disconnect between racing fans and racing writers/handicappers/insiders. The former barely credit Bernardini with doing anything and the latter understand how good this horse is (if Bernardini's races are so slow, why aren't the speed handicappers knocking him?), almost uniformly. Racing writers have mentioned the fact that they'd like to see Bernardini beat fuller fields or overcome trouble, yet they also don't hold it against him because he's this good. Lucky them that they can appreciate a special talent.

[Danzig]

poor bill. always a hard luck story....but we won't speak ill of the dead.

funny tho, isn't it. invasor beats sun king (but then, doesn't everyone?) and anyone who praises invasors runs this year gets shot down with the sun king sucks line.
lava man, same thing. you try to talk him up, and get shot down over who he's beaten.

but bernie, to suggest that beating wanderin boy does not a hall of famer make, and it's blasphemy and the search for stones to throw is on.

bern gets a high figure, wonderful. anyone else--ah, beyer tinkering with #'s again. it's hilarious.

[Revolution]

Great post, Ateam; I couldn't agree more. But really, it's their problem.......or not, if this is how they get their jollies. Now I'm hearing that Bernardini's time was slow for the track? LOL That's why he got a 117 Beyer; that track was not that fast and Bernardini finished in a canter. What did they expect, a track record performance one race before the Breeders Cup? Should Castellano have hit him with the whip, race well in hand, to impress the fans?

Even some of the praise here is qualified - nice race, I would have liked to have seen him beat more than 3 horses. Interesting that the same argument used to defend Mineshaft (who I adore) -- that he was so good that horses ducked him- is being used to discredit Bernardini. What a joke -it's not like he's struggling to win, either. He's winning in breathtaking style and it's still not enough.

There's a huge disconnect between racing fans and racing writers/handicappers/insiders. The former barely credit Bernardini with doing anything and the latter understand how good this horse is (if Bernardini's races are so slow, why aren't the speed handicappers knocking him?), almost uniformly. Racing writers have mentioned the fact that they'd like to see Bernardini beat fuller fields or overcome trouble, yet they also don't hold it against him because he's this good. Lucky them that they can appreciate a special talent.

bernardini has 4 of the fastest 5 beyers run this year. the other being the faulty one sinister minister ran. he is significantly faster than any distance horse out there.

[Danzig]

So let me get this straight.. You're already writing off the BCC field, and pre-emptively discrediting Bernardini if he wins the BCC, because it's already a bad field in your opinion. Now I've heard everything.

This just in. There's a REASON that he's facing nobody. NO ONE WANTS TO FACE HIM.

Your attitude is everything that's wrong with the racewatching public. Rather than appreciate the type of horse that only comes along a few times in a life (if we're lucky), you'd rather sit back and knock the horse for something he cannot control and something that is mainly A RESULT OF HIS BRILLIANCE. There's absolutely no satisfying this type of racing "fan" unless we go dig up Secretariat, Seattle Slew, find Spectacular Bid, etc. and run them against this horse. Then if he loses, the "fan" will say "I told you so." It's a complete joke.

THIS IS SOMETHING I'VE LEARNED OVER THE YEARS AS A RACING FAN: NO MATTER HOW GOOD THE HORSE, THE "HE BEAT NOBODY" CROWD WILL ALWAYS EXIST.

It wouldn't matter if Pegasus came to life and won the BCC by 87 lengths. There would, without a doubt, be the "Yeah, but who did Pegasus beat?" sad sacks chiming in at every opportunity.

And I can't even respond to "Smarty ran against much better horses and had a much more difficult schedule" without laughing myself blue.

Yet what I find even more absurdly hilarious is that when Lava Man beats Super Frolic for the 22nd time, we get 1,000 new threads proclaiming this horse the greatest older male since Man O' War. Okay. It's real tough to stay within 40 miles of your home base and beat the same four or five horses all year long. Much tougher than doing what Bernardini has done.

It's ridiculous.

see what i mean? it's ok to knock lava mans competition, but not bernardinis. right? and by your logic, if lava man is the best comp that bernie will face, than yeah, evidently it is a crappy field--since you think lava man stinks, right?

now me, on the other hand...i think the best open race of the year is coming up in the bcc. the winner will justifiably be called horse of the year.. the likes of lava man, bernardini, invasor, david junior assembling in churchill, neutral ground for them all. the four above--take the entire year, and the four of them together have only two losses between them all!! some have run only on dirt, one only on turf, and one on both. gonna be a hell of a race. but ateam, you and others do no favors to bern by suggesting that the ones he will face in nov are nothing but pretenders. lava man is having the best year of his racing life. heck, they all are!!! bring on nov, so we can anoint the best horse since gz--and probably better, because all of these guys have raced way more in a year than he did!!

[Danzig]

bernardini has 4 of the fastest 5 beyers run this year. the other being the faulty one sinister minister ran. he is significantly faster than any distance horse out there.
lol maybe all five are faulty. hey, any horse on any given day can run lights out. that was sinmins day. calling it faulty could bring into question any beyer!

[pgardn]

So let me get this straight.. You're already writing off the BCC field, and pre-emptively discrediting Bernardini if he wins the BCC, because it's already a bad field in your opinion. Now I've heard everything.

This just in. There's a REASON that he's facing nobody. NO ONE WANTS TO FACE HIM.

Your attitude is everything that's wrong with the racewatching public. Rather than appreciate the type of horse that only comes along a few times in a life (if we're lucky), you'd rather sit back and knock the horse for something he cannot control and something that is mainly A RESULT OF HIS BRILLIANCE. There's absolutely no satisfying this type of racing "fan" unless we go dig up Secretariat, Seattle Slew, find Spectacular Bid, etc. and run them against this horse. Then if he loses, the "fan" will say "I told you so." It's a complete joke.

THIS IS SOMETHING I'VE LEARNED OVER THE YEARS AS A RACING FAN: NO MATTER HOW GOOD THE HORSE, THE "HE BEAT NOBODY" CROWD WILL ALWAYS EXIST.

It wouldn't matter if Pegasus came to life and won the BCC by 87 lengths. There would, without a doubt, be the "Yeah, but who did Pegasus beat?" sad sacks chiming in at every opportunity.

And I can't even respond to "Smarty ran against much better horses and had a much more difficult schedule" without laughing myself blue.

Yet what I find even more absurdly hilarious is that when Lava Man beats Super Frolic for the 22nd time, we get 1,000 new threads proclaiming this horse the greatest older male since Man O' War. Okay. It's real tough to stay within 40 miles of your home base and beat the same four or five horses all year long. Much tougher than doing what Bernardini has done.

It's ridiculous.

And who in Gods name is close to decent then ateam if Lava Man is not. Which outside of Cali I dont think he is. Are really telling me we got a bunch of good older horses? Is that what you are saying? Who are they? It has not been a good year and it is not Bernardinis fault. But I cant rate him the greatest in 30 years as one poster did. No way no how. I wonder if that poster has been alive 30 years.

And I can't even respond to "Smarty ran against much better horses and had a much more difficult schedule" without laughing myself blue.

Then why did you respond and laugh yourself blue?

And you are telling me Bernardini ran 3 TC races? For gods sake what schedule is more difficult than that? TELL ME ATEAM, GIVE ME A MORE DIFFICULT SCHEDULE?

ANd you are coronating this horse as the best horse to come along in years... Why? Because he looks great in his wins. BUT FOR GODS SAKE I HAVE WATCHED THIS STUFF A LOT LONGER THAN YOU, SO TELL ME, HOW DO YOU DEFINE GREAT?

In my humble definition of GREAT you have got to be pushed and come through some adversity. Yes in my definition, you have to do more than win. A horse has to win facing some adversity. If the horse is so great then why does he not run with more weight against his elders? Who cares if he is 3, he is GREAT, ATEAM says so, so weight him down in a HANDICAP instead of older horses. Handicap THE BEST HORSE.

This just in. There's a REASON that he's facing nobody. NO ONE WANTS TO FACE HIM.

Who is out there to face him on the level of Barbaro that is not injured or sick? Who ATEAM? Who is up and coming and worthy? Which horse ATEam, since the older division and 3 year olds are so loaded this year? FACT: This is not a good year in the older division or the 3 yo division. The best horses where pushed too hard and or are out, or are not present. Bernadini's connections played it perfectly.

And I have already stated its not his fault numerous times. You making a post as absurd as this... makes me want the horse to lose which I dont. I want to see the horse beat some hot horses.

So you think Bernardini has run a schedule tougher that Smarty JONes... get real. The TC is murder. And they new it. Alert ATEam, there is no tougher series of races than the triple crown. If so, give it to me.

[pgardn]

bernardini has 4 of the fastest 5 beyers run this year. the other being the faulty one sinister minister ran. he is significantly faster than any distance horse out there.

To hell with the GD numbers. Horses running free on the lead get these types of numbers. There are a heck of a lot of very good races that are very close that do not yield good Beyers. Because the horses knock the crap out of each other.

[Bold Brooklynite]

Lava Man did not impress me today. He's going to have to do a lot better in Kentucky. U could easily see the amount of effort needed by both he and Bernardini today. Granted, he was facing a much tougher field than Bernardini was but the effortlessness of Bernardini's race was stunning. Without being asked for anything close to his best, he still was running strong at the end. Lava Man on the other hand was being asked, even hit by the stick in the lane. And I don't think he was going faster than Bernardini was. The BC Classic is going to be a coronation for Bernardini. He didn't beat much at all but he did it the way he was supposed to. This is a once in a lifetime horse. Unless u are a Dubai sheikh. Imagine that I don't even think he's the best horse in the family. The Classic should be a match race between he and Lava Man. There are NO other horses that belong on the same track with them. And I don't even think Lava Man belongs on the same track with Bernardini.
Hey, King ...

... remember all the scoffers and naysayers on the "other" forum last March when I was the first to say that Bernardini was a special horse?

They forgot ... or never learned ... life's greatest truth ...

... "Never ... ever ... doubt Bold Brooklynite."

[pgardn]

see what i mean? it's ok to knock lava mans competition, but not bernardinis. right? and by your logic, if lava man is the best comp that bernie will face, than yeah, evidently it is a crappy field--since you think lava man stinks, right?

now me, on the other hand...i think the best open race of the year is coming up in the bcc. the winner will justifiably be called horse of the year.. the likes of lava man, bernardini, invasor, david junior assembling in churchill, neutral ground for them all. the four above--take the entire year, and the four of them together have only two losses between them all!! some have run only on dirt, one only on turf, and one on both. gonna be a hell of a race. but ateam, you and others do no favors to bern by suggesting that the ones he will face in nov are nothing but pretenders. lava man is having the best year of his racing life. heck, they all are!!! bring on nov, so we can anoint the best horse since gz--and probably better, because all of these guys have raced way more in a year than he did!!

Invasor is sick... or so I thought? That was a total lie to keep him away from Bernardini.? Invasor was really in top shape? Lava Man, again, outside of the west, I dont trust the horse. I dont think he travels well at all. And David Junior. Bring on a poor Euro that is used to trotting the first 6f on the grass and take on these dirt horses running a diff direction. The Euros are at a clear disadvantage in the BCC.

This years BCC is may rank as one of the shallowest. Take out Lava Man and Bernardini... and we have a sick INvasor left? Who would watch this. There is one reason the BCC will get people watching. Bernardini, not his competition. Its shallow. Sorry.

Having said that Im looking forward to the sprint. Henny Hughes looks tremendous and will hopefully be vastly overbet. So hopefully I can find another Cajun Beat. Its the sprint.

[pgardn]

Hey, King ...

... remember all the scoffers and naysayers on the "other" forum last March when I was the first to say that Bernardini was a special horse?

They forgot ... or never learned ... life's greatest truth ...

... "Never ... ever ... doubt Bold Brooklynite."

Who scoffed?

[avance2000]

Who was that Barbaro horse?

Ez

that is a flat out ridiculous comment.
i have never been a big bernardini fan. he is a really good horse, but every time i try to like him, i get turned off by the sheer ignorance of his fans when they say crap like this.

[Bold Brooklynite]

HH set a stakes record in the Vosburgh.
The Vosburgh has traditionally been run at 7f. I'm not sure how many times it's been run at 6f ... but it's not a lot ... so the stakes record is not that meaningful.

In 1957 Bold Ruler ran the first 6f just as fast as Henny Hughes did yesterday ... and Bold Ruler still had another furlong to go.

Henny Hughes ... like Bold Ruler ... is a very fast horse who makes the track look faster than it is.

My horse Bernardini ... my horse, not anyone else's ... runs so effortlessly that his final times are really amazingly fast ... given the minimal effort that he exerts to achieve them.

Yes ... it would be nice to see him face better competition ... and hopefully Invasor and Lava Man will provide some. But after he destroys them in the BC Classic ... all we'll hear is that Bernardini beat a former claimer who can't run outside of California ... and a South American horse who can't even speak English.

[Danzig]

Invasor is sick... or so I thought? That was a total lie to keep him away from Bernardini.? Invasor was really in top shape? Lava Man, again, outside of the west, I dont trust the horse. I dont think he travels well at all. And David Junior. Bring on a poor Euro that is used to trotting the first 6f on the grass and take on these dirt horses running a diff direction. The Euros are at a clear disadvantage in the BCC.

This years BCC is may rank as one of the shallowest. Take out Lava Man and Bernardini... and we have a sick INvasor left? Who would watch this. There is one reason the BCC will get people watching. Bernardini, not his competition. Its shallow. Sorry.

Having said that Im looking forward to the sprint. Henny Hughes looks tremendous and will hopefully be vastly overbet. So hopefully I can find another Cajun Beat. Its the sprint.

invasor spiked a fever. no way i'd take on bern if my horse wasn't close to 100%. problem is now that he'll be off 13 weeks, but hopefully kieran will get him as ready as he can for the bcc.
i just think it's not being consistent with arguments if some knock lava about his comp--but it's heresy to question bernardinis--and of course it's pointed out that bernardini can only face who shows up, he has no control over who he runs against. well guess what folks?! neither does lava man!!!! or any other horse. but if super frolic can't hold up to scrutiny, why should andromedas hero? or wanderin boy?? lol it's crazy.
i think the top 3 yo effort this wknd was by henny hughes. he took on some of the best sprinters in the country, including silver train, who we all know absolutely loves belmont!

[2MinsToPost]

Which is better,

a chili dog from Dairy Queen

or

Wendy's french fries?

[Danzig]

profundity of the day.

[pgardn]

real source of my frustration is knowing Bernardini will not be runnng at 4. That pisses me off to no end.

[Danzig]

i don't think he'll run next year either. but who knows til they make the announcement? if he wins the classic, i really don't see him being around next year. actually, i'm not so sure he'll be around either way. that's another year the sheik would have to wait for his future derby winner sired by his first classic winner.

[pgardn]

I will drone a chant tonight wishing all B's offspring become happy, healthy duds. That would be justice served.

[sumitas]

LOL u can't do that. group think tells all we must bow down to Bernardini and kiss albertranis butt...:D

[Pointg5]

bernardini has 4 of the fastest 5 beyers run this year. the other being the faulty one sinister minister ran. he is significantly faster than any distance horse out there.


It's kind of funny, how you point out that Sinister Ministers Beyer is faulty, but Bernardini's aren't...hmm, I guess if it fits your arguement, they are valid, if not, they are faulty...

[ateamstupid]

It's kind of funny, how you point out that Sinister Ministers Beyer is faulty, but Bernardini's aren't...hmm, I guess if it fits your arguement, they are valid, if not, they are faulty...

SM ran one in the Top 5. Bernardini ran the other four. I guess that's enough evidence to say 'dini's faster.. Not to you, apparently, though.

[Pointg5]

SM ran one in the Top 5. Bernardini ran the other four. I guess that's enough evidence to say 'dini's faster.. Not to you, apparently, though.

Ofcourse Bernardini is faster, but that's not the point, you can't selectively point to that evidence as him being fast, but say well that was a faulty Beyer on Sin Min, isn't it possible that one or two of Bernardini's Beyers are faulty then. Didn't he earn one of those on a loose lead or easy trip? That's the thing with you Bernardini lovers, it's all or none, and if you don't lavish praise on him you are a hater, that's rediculous. Haven't I said that I believe he's the best horse in training? Haven't I said he's a potential great? I am sorry I have questions about him when he gets hooked. I am finished with this conversation, I really hope he wins the Classic, because I don't think some of you guys will be able to get on with your lives if he does not...

[Thunder Gulch]

No doubt Bernardini looks like a great one, but let's not overstate it at this point. If he thrashes Lava Man, Invasor, and others by open lengths on 11/4, then we can start figuring where he fits in history. He still hasn't run an off the chart fast race, ala Formal Gold or Spectacular Bid, but he hasn't been asked either, so who knows.

[Bold Brooklynite]

No doubt Bernardini looks like a great one, but let's not overstate it at this point. If he thrashes Lava Man, Invasor, and others by open lengths on 11/4, then we can start figuring where he fits in history. He still hasn't run an off the chart fast race, ala Formal Gold or Spectacular Bid, but he hasn't been asked either, so who knows.
People ... people ... people ...

... please don't fall into the amateurish trap of comparing performances by 4YOS to performances by 3YOS.

All these folks who use the great races of Spectacular Bid or Seattle Slew or Dr. Fager (or Formal Gold) as yardsticks for comparisons to Secretariat or Bernardini ... are falling into that silly trap.

None of those three great horses did anything extraordinary as 3YOS ... all of their mindblowing races came as 4YOS.

The 3YO Bernardini is every bit as good ... or much better ... than the 3YO Spectacular Bid, Seattle Slew, or Dr. Fager.

The 3YO Secretariat blew the wheels off any horse of any age. Only the evil doings of worldwide socialism prevented us from seeing even more sensational performances from him as a 4YO.

Please let's not hear such nonsense again.

[oracle80]

I wasn't blown away by his effort like I was in the Travers. he had to get after him on the turn to catch the runnerup, and his final time was ordinary. I can't grasp the Beyer fig at all, think its ludicrous. Henny went 8 flat for 6f so the track was obviously ok in speed. 2:01 for a mile and a quarter which is only a turn and a half instead of two turns on a track where the track record is 1:58:1 is not that great.
I dunno, maybe he is beatable after all.

[Pointg5]

I wasn't blown away by his effort like I was in the Travers. he had to get after him on the turn to catch the runnerup, and his final time was ordinary. I can't grasp the Beyer fig at all, think its ludicrous. Henny went 8 flat for 6f so the track was obviously ok in speed. 2:01 for a mile and a quarter which is only a turn and a half instead of two turns on a track where the track record is 1:58:1 is not that great.
I dunno, maybe he is beatable after all.

Now you've done it, you're going to send the planets out of line and have the Bernardini Bunch come crashing down on you...Heaven forbid, someone looks at the race for what it was....

[Buffymommy]

OK, I just watched the race. He won easily and it wouldn't surprise me if he does win the Breeder's Cup. (not that I think he is going to win cause you all know who I am really rooting for).

Bernardini is a good very good horse. OK, so his time wasn't that great, but he really wasn't asked. But then I question: Has Bernardini ever really been asked? Has another horse every kept up with him stride for stride in the homestretch and has he had to battle to the wire with another horse? If he has, I haven't seen it. Until I do, I will not dub him "the next great". Not that he isn't a very good horse, because he is. Just not labeling him "GREAT" yet.

But when Drifty kicks his butt in the Classic, I will not dub him great... :D :D (Just being sarcastic, but here's to hoping.)

[randallscott35]

I wasn't blown away by his effort like I was in the Travers. he had to get after him on the turn to catch the runnerup, and his final time was ordinary. I can't grasp the Beyer fig at all, think its ludicrous. Henny went 8 flat for 6f so the track was obviously ok in speed. 2:01 for a mile and a quarter which is only a turn and a half instead of two turns on a track where the track record is 1:58:1 is not that great.
I dunno, maybe he is beatable after all.


I tend to agree here. Much more impressed by Henny than Bernie. But Bernie is really really good, but we need to hold off on the super horse comparisons sometimes. We all want one so much that it doesn't surprise me that people jump the gun. He could be. Or he might not be....Discreet Cat may well be better.

[Bold Brooklynite]

I tend to agree here. Much more impressed by Henny than Bernie. But Bernie is really really good, but we need to hold off on the super horse comparisons sometimes. We all want one so much that it doesn't surprise me that people jump the gun. He could be. Or he might not be....Discreet Cat may well be better.
Randy ...

In light of my admonition above ... you may want to change your signature line.

To say that Spectacular Bid was better than Secretariat is exactly the type of silly amateurism that I warned against. Compare the 3YO record of Spectacular Bid with the 3YO record of Secretariat ... and you'll realize how foolish you look.

[randallscott35]

Randy ...

In light of my admonition above ... you may want to change your signature line.

To say that Spectacular Bid was better than Secretariat is exactly the type of silly amateurism that I warned against. Compare the 3YO record of Spectacular Bid with the 3YO record of Secretariat ... and you'll realize how foolish you look.

Yes I'm so silly. Bad me. Bad, bad, bad.

[Dixie Porter]

[QUOTE=Bold Brooklynite]People ... people ... people ...
Only the evil doings of worldwide socialism prevented us from seeing even more sensational performances from him as a 4YO.
QUOTE]

I doubt it....................

And please don't buy into that "twit's" BS.

Did you know that Lucien could make a rope come up out of the basket without a pipe?

BTW, a clocker picked up he battery Sunday morning right by the clocker's stand just before the clubhouse turn.

:mad:

[LARHAGE]

It was a decent performance. The mid fractions were solid but they were coming off some really slow initial fractions. And he didn't come home in anything riveting.

There's no way Bernardini would have beaten Ghostzapper in the BC Classic. No way. Or St. Liam, or Roses in May. He has an easy chance to do it compared with what other 3 year olds have faced in the Classic. He's been very lucky.

That might change soon depending on what Romans does with Bright One. Or the sheiks do with Discreet Cat.

BRIGHT ONE??????? He coudn't even beat a field of 3rd and 4th string runners! Bernardini could give him a 3 furlong head start and 15 pounds and blow him away!!!!

[Cajungator26]

BRIGHT ONE??????? He coudn't even beat a field of 3rd and 4th string runners! Bernardini could give him a 3 furlong head start and 15 pounds and blow him away!!!!

We'll see if they run against one another...

[Coach Pants]

BRIGHT ONE??????? He coudn't even beat a field of 3rd and 4th string runners! Bernardini could give him a 3 furlong head start and 15 pounds and blow him away!!!!
Muhaha I concur! Hell Jesus would lose to Bernardini in a 5 furlong sprint on the water!! And i'll make $30 on a $300 bet! Whoo!!

*pats self on the back*

[Cajungator26]

Muhaha I concur! Hell Jesus would lose to Bernardini in a 5 furlong sprint on the water!! And i'll make $30 on a $300 bet! Whoo!!

*pats self on the back*

LMFAO!!! :D

OMG, you guys are killing me today...

[Danzig2]

OK, I just watched the race. He won easily and it wouldn't surprise me if he does win the Breeder's Cup. (not that I think he is going to win cause you all know who I am really rooting for).

Bernardini is a good very good horse. OK, so his time wasn't that great, but he really wasn't asked. But then I question: Has Bernardini ever really been asked? Has another horse every kept up with him stride for stride in the homestretch and has he had to battle to the wire with another horse? If he has, I haven't seen it. Until I do, I will not dub him "the next great". Not that he isn't a very good horse, because he is. Just not labeling him "GREAT" yet.

But when Drifty kicks his butt in the Classic, I will not dub him great... :D :D (Just being sarcastic, but here's to hoping.)

he hasn't won them all. apparently they didn't 'ask' him in his debut either!!

[JJP]

Bernardini is just a good 3 year old who has run against nobody. He's been very lucky in that he hasn't had anybody to run against. He might get lucky again because he doesn't have Ghostzapper, St. Liam, or Roses in May to run against. Plenty of older horses can get the 10f in 201 and change. With solid fractions also. It'll be a different story at CD in a few weeks.

The fractions in that race were almost like a turf race. 25+, 48, yawn, sigh, snore, zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz . . . . .

Wake me up when a truly great horse arrives, because it's not Bernardini.

The biggest myth in racing is 3YOs can't beat older horses. They do it all the time and it will happen at CD when both Bernardini and Henny Hughes win.

[Danzig2]

just remember the fave only wins about 1/3 of the time. some faves WILL go down come bc day.
question is....who??

[Buffymommy]

I am thinking Bernardini is most likely the one to go down. I am so excited about the Breeder's Cup this year. I am even doing a pool at work for all the races.

[JJP]

just remember the fave only wins about 1/3 of the time. some faves WILL go down come bc day.
question is....who??

The Mile and Sprint have historically had the most longshots. The Juvenile has had some beaten faves. The Distaff has had the most chalks.

[Buffymommy]

The Mile and Sprint have historically had the most longshots. The Juvenile has had some beaten faves. The Distaff has had the most chalks.


And they say a woman is unpredictable... :D

[Bold Brooklynite]

Yes I'm so silly. Bad me. Bad, bad, bad.
That's one way to respond ... but ...

... a better way would have been to check the records ... and then write ...

"Gee, Bold ... you were right ... Secretariat was a much better 3YO than Spectacular Bid. From now on my signature line will be:

Mineshaft was the best horse since Spectacular Bid. And Spectacular Bid was the best 4YO ever."

Yeah ... I think that would have been a bit better response ... don't you?

[Bold Brooklynite]

I doubt it....................

And please don't buy into that "twit's" BS.

Did you know that Lucien could make a rope come up out of the basket without a pipe?

BTW, a clocker picked up he battery Sunday morning right by the clocker's stand just before the clubhouse turn.

:mad:
Lucien could also make a soufflé without any eggs ... he used polytrack instead.

And the clocker who picked up the battery ... was the same one who timed the Preakness ... and who started his stopwatch while they were still loading into the starting gate.

Did you know that the very same battery is still used to start the engines on the QE2?

[Downthestretch55]

Lucien could also make a soufflé without any eggs ... he used polytrack instead.

And the clocker who picked up the battery ... was the same one who timed the Preakness ... and who started his stopwatch while they were still loading into the starting gate.

Did you know that the very same battery is still used to start the engines on the QE2?
Now you're talking about the battery???
Huh?
The same one that runs your pace maker after you clogged your arteries with all those eggs...colesterol?
Hope it doesn't run out of juice.
Might be a little problem though, ya know...getting oxygenated blood to your brain through those clogged juglars.
Keep posting. Eat more eggs. Stick your index fingers in the nearest outlet if you find the need.
If you get a bit desperate, go to the nearest subway station (not too far from your refigerator box) and lay yourself on the 3rd rail.
Tell us about the "bounce".

[Antitrust32]

Now you've done it, you're going to send the planets out of line and have the Bernardini Bunch come crashing down on you...Heaven forbid, someone looks at the race for what it was....

OMG, what the race WAS was a four horse field and all Bernardini had to do was run in 2:01 to win by many lenghts. Dont you think Javiar would want to save his horse for the classic instead of get everything out of his horse so he can run a faster time??? it WAS NOT a difficult race and it WAS NOT a spectacular time, but dont get down on a GREAT horse because he did all he was asked of.

[randallscott35]

That's one way to respond ... but ...

... a better way would have been to check the records ... and then write ...

"Gee, Bold ... you were right ... Secretariat was a much better 3YO than Spectacular Bid. From now on my signature line will be:

Mineshaft was the best horse since Spectacular Bid. And Spectacular Bid was the best 4YO ever."

Yeah ... I think that would have been a bit better response ... don't you?

Yes, because I need to justify myself to some shmuck on a message board. I could give a rats ass what you think. And I never once in this thread even brought Spec Bid up. SO I have no clue why you dragged me into this to begin with....so "Gee Bold you were right, you are a deuche bag"

[Downthestretch55]

Yes, because I need to justify myself to some shmuck on a message board. I could give a rats ass what you think. And I never once in this thread even brought Spec Bid up. SO I have no clue why you dragged me into this to begin with....so "Gee Bold you were right, you are a deuche bag"
Hmmm Randall,
Didn't take you too long to figure out this blowhard...huh?

[Bold Brooklynite]

Yes, because I need to justify myself to some shmuck on a message board. I could give a rats ass what you think. And I never once in this thread even brought Spec Bid up. SO I have no clue why you dragged me into this to begin with....so "Gee Bold you were right, you are a deuche bag"
You bring Spectacular Bid up every time you post ... which is fine ... he was our last truly great horse.

If you don't want commentary on your comparison of Secretariat and Spectacular Bid ... don't post that comparison over and over again.

And the correct spelling is "douche" bag ... from the French word for washing.

[Coach Pants]

You bring Spectacular Bid up every time you post ... which is fine ... he was our last truly great horse.

If you don't want commentary on your comparison of Secretariat and Spectacular Bid ... don't post that comparison over and over again.

And the correct spelling is "douche" bag ... from the French word for washing.
You go, Akeelah, err I mean deucebag.

[randallscott35]

You bring Spectacular Bid up every time you post ... which is fine ... he was our last truly great horse.

If you don't want commentary on your comparison of Secretariat and Spectacular Bid ... don't post that comparison over and over again.

And the correct spelling is "douche" bag ... from the French word for washing.
Sorry about that, my full breakdown will be coming up shortly, so don't go anywhere.

[ateamstupid]

see what i mean? it's ok to knock lava mans competition, but not bernardinis. right? and by your logic, if lava man is the best comp that bernie will face, than yeah, evidently it is a crappy field--since you think lava man stinks, right?

Exactly. :rolleyes:

You guys aren't very good at reading comprehension. My point is that there's a great deal of hypocrisy in almost everything the Bernardini haters say. The same people who destroy Bernardini for beating no one are suspiciously silent whenever Lava Man is getting praise around here. This is ludicrous. They both have beaten nobody, yet Bernardini is the only one who attracts the "he beat nobody" gathering. That was all I was saying.

And who in Gods name is close to decent then ateam if Lava Man is not. Which outside of Cali I dont think he is. Are really telling me we got a bunch of good older horses? Is that what you are saying? Who are they? It has not been a good year and it is not Bernardinis fault. But I cant rate him the greatest in 30 years as one poster did. No way no how. I wonder if that poster has been alive 30 years.

The point is that you might as well not even respond to Bernardini posts anymore, because there's no way your opinion can be changed, no matter what he does at CD. So despite anything the horse does, you're gonna be singing the same tune.

And I can't even respond to "Smarty ran against much better horses and had a much more difficult schedule" without laughing myself blue.

Then why did you respond and laugh yourself blue?

Did I respond to that quote? No, I didn't.

In my humble definition of GREAT you have got to be pushed and come through some adversity. Yes in my definition, you have to do more than win. A horse has to win facing some adversity. If the horse is so great then why does he not run with more weight against his elders? Who cares if he is 3, he is GREAT, ATEAM says so, so weight him down in a HANDICAP instead of older horses. Handicap THE BEST HORSE.

The Jockey Club Gold Cup isn't a handicap. And it comes back to your same tired argument. Bernardini might as well retire, according to you. He'll never become great, because in order to do that, he has to beat horses that won't run against him. Greatness to me is earned with a mix of dominance, respect from others and an inexplicable quality, which is just that I'm blown away every time the horse runs. The only other horse besides this one that blew me away every time he ran was Ghostzapper. Like you said, I haven't been watching races forever, but since I have, those are the two who blew me away everytime they ran. Plus there's something I heard early on about this horse that I can't repeat here, which let me know that he could be great, and this statement has yet to be proven wrong.

Going back to Ghostzapper for a minute, there's something to be said about how much praise he gets around here these days. Back when he was running, I always felt like I was in the minority in thinking he was something special. But now, all I see is Ghostzapper this, Ghostzapper that. You think maybe there are certain people who just have a psychological tendency to not be able to appreciate great things until they're gone?

FACT: This is not a good year in the older division or the 3 yo division.

Really? That's a FACT? Not an opinion?

And I have already stated its not his fault numerous times. You making a post as absurd as this... makes me want the horse to lose which I dont. I want to see the horse beat some hot horses.

Yeah, I made the absurd post. You're already discrediting him for winning a "weak" Classic, and I'm off the deep end here.

[pgardn]

Exactly. :rolleyes:

1.The point is that you might as well not even respond to Bernardini posts anymore, because there's no way your opinion can be changed, no matter what he does at CD. So despite anything the horse does, you're gonna be singing the same tune.



2.Did I respond to that quote? No, I didn't.



3.The Jockey Club Gold Cup isn't a handicap. And it comes back to your same tired argument. Bernardini might as well retire, according to you. He'll never become great, because in order to do that, he has to beat horses that won't run against him. Greatness to me is earned with a mix of dominance, respect from others and an inexplicable quality, which is just that I'm blown away every time the horse runs. The only other horse besides this one that blew me away every time he ran was Ghostzapper. Like you said, I haven't been watching races forever, but since I have, those are the two who blew me away everytime they ran. Plus there's something I heard early on about this horse that I can't repeat here, which let me know that he could be great, and this statement has yet to be proven wrong.

4.Going back to Ghostzapper for a minute, there's something to be said about how much praise he gets around here these days. Back when he was running, I always felt like I was in the minority in thinking he was something special. But now, all I see is Ghostzapper this, Ghostzapper that. You think maybe there are certain people who just have a psychological tendency to not be able to appreciate great things until they're gone?



5.Really? That's a FACT? Not an opinion?



6.Yeah, I made the absurd post. You're already discrediting him for winning a "weak" Classic, and I'm off the deep end here.

1. I wont change my opinion? How do you know that? I need some tough races, and the BCC does give the opportunity. Especially if the horse gets into some traffic problems, which does not usually happen in 4 horse fields.

2. No you responded. Enough silly games like this.

3. I did not say the Jockey Club Gold was a handicap. Although I did imply it by adding older horses. I would be more impressed if the horse ran in a handicap like Mineshaft and really weighted down at distance. They actually used to run races with serious handicaps.

4. I never did this with Ghostzapper, although I was skeptical early on. He earned my respect. But I will never go bonkers over this horse being he was so fragile. I use longevity as one criteria. Thats why Smarty wont make it all the way either, except as a horse that ran some fantastic TC races as a 3yo. Seattle sees Candy Ride run one freak race here and he is sold this horse is the greatest ever. I think you see my point.

5. Oh very good ateam, its an opinion. Refute it.

6. You are not off the deep end. Like many others you have spotted a very good horse. Lets see him show he is great. Hope he gets the chance. There have been a number of very good horses in the past that did not get a chance.

Oh yes, this is an opinion to.

[oracle80]

Ateam,
Noone hates Bernadini, and noone hated Ghostzapper.
In Zapper's case he was winning shorter races and beating SMALL fields, albeit better fields than Dini has but needed a "defining race" to show everyone how special he was and elevate him to "great" status. His BC Classic race was exactly that, he demolished and destroyed the field against his preferred running style to run an incredible figure.
Anyone who "hated" him or questioned him after that needs a straight jacket.
If Bernadini does the same thing then noone will question a thing about him either.
I think its quite fair to acknowledge Dini's immense talent yet still need to see a "defining race" out of him. Beating medocre horses or injured horses is NOT his fault. He can only beat what hes put up against. Noone with a brain is "hating" on him. Its just that need for a defining race that people wanna see.

[Dixie Porter]

Ateam,
Its just that need for a defining race that people wanna see.

You can put me on record as stating "you'll NEVER see one". I could care less if he beats Andromeda's Hero and that other quitter by a half mile.

If he puts away HH going 7/8th's to a mile I'll readdress my statement.

[Travis Stone]

It's laughable. If a horse dominates a division, the division is weak. If no horse dominates a division, the division is weak. What will make people happy? Horseplayers are never happy.

[kenny p]

I looked at Bernadini in the paddock the other day. While I am not an expert like most of you people he is one of the most impressive looking thouroughbreds i have ever seen. He also seems to have a real presence about him. I hope he crushes the Classic field. I have been on this forum since May and it seems to becoming a place for smallminded idiots to belittle each other. Thats a shame because its run by a real classy guy. KP

[Coach Pants]

It's laughable. If a horse dominates a division, the division is weak. If no horse dominates a division, the division is weak. What will make people happy? Horseplayers are never happy.
Black and white statements like yours are ridiculous. Stick to race calling.

[oracle80]

I looked at Bernadini in the paddock the other day. While I am not an expert like most of you people he is one of the most impressive looking thouroughbreds i have ever seen. He also seems to have a real presence about him. I hope he crushes the Classic field. I have been on this forum since May and it seems to becoming a place for smallminded idiots to belittle each other. Thats a shame because its run by a real classy guy. KP
Kenny P, what is your definition of smallminded idiots? If its anyone who won't annoint Bernadini one of the greats yet, than you can add me proudly to that club of smallminded idiots.
I think everyone realizes that hes a very good horse, but some would like to see him take on those horses in the BCC and stamp himself as great before just handing that title over to him. I don't think thats at all unreasonable.

[Cajungator26]

Black and white statements like yours are ridiculous. Stick to race calling.

What was wrong with his statement? I thought it was pretty accurate...

[kenny p]

Oracle .. My comment about smidiots had nothing to do with Bernadini. Its about the tone of the discussions here. Some are down right nasty. You seem to draw alot of venom with your posts( which I happen to like) ..the posts not the venom. I would like to see more talk about races than the constant sniping.KP

[Coach Pants]

What was wrong with his statement? I thought it was pretty accurate...He made a black or white statement. There is a grey area and that's where Bernardini lives for right now.

If Invasor doesn't run in the BCC it will arguably be one of the weakest classic fields yet. Outside of Lava Man and Bernardini, there are nothing but a bunch of bridesmaids.

Horse racing is just like any other sport. Teams and individuals are always compared to past champions and there are certain accomplishments that have to be met before the masses concede their greatness.

And really all of the doubters are speaking up because the Bernardini goo gooism is getting ridiculous. He's a really good horse but there are many questions going into the big race that have yet to be answered.

[Danzig2]

read on drf that invasor WILL be supplemented, and will run in the bcc. that unless bern misses the bc, discreet cat will not run that day. that sucks....either/or.

[oracle80]

Oracle .. My comment about smidiots had nothing to do with Bernadini. Its about the tone of the discussions here. Some are down right nasty. You seem to draw alot of venom with your posts( which I happen to like) ..the posts not the venom. I would like to see more talk about races than the constant sniping.KP
Oh yeah well thats a very valid thing. Points and counterpoints, and opinion disagreements actually produce the most lievely and intelligent discussions though. It wouldn't be a very good place if someone posted a thought and everyone agreed.
Some folks though don't contribute a whole lot in the means of information or original thought, and spend most of their time trying to "prove" or shoot down something that others say without ever adding anything of interest. They are full time devil's advocates.
I actually think threads like last night's spat between BB and randall was awesome. I mean two guys disagreeing over the places in history of two of the finest horses ever to race, and you end up with all this info and history and stats on them that many people, especially the younger crowd, may be learning for the first time.
Give me 100 of those over the devils advocate, always after the race is over threads anyday.

[Dixie Porter]

If a horse dominates a division, the division is weak. If no horse dominates a division, the division is weak. What will make people happy? Horseplayers are never happy.

You are correct in stating that horse players in general are never happy.

[Cajungator26]

He made a black or white statement. There is a grey area and that's where Bernardini lives for right now.

If Invasor doesn't run in the BCC it will arguably be one of the weakest classic fields yet. Outside of Lava Man and Bernardini, there are nothing but a bunch of bridesmaids.

Horse racing is just like any other sport. Teams and individuals are always compared to past champions and there are certain accomplishments that have to be met before the masses concede their greatness.

And really all of the doubters are speaking up because the Bernardini goo gooism is getting ridiculous. He's a really good horse but there are many questions going into the big race that have yet to be answered.

I agree with all of that, but you have to admit that some people just aren't happy any way you look at it. Personally, I think we have been blessed with a few of the most talented 3 year olds I've seen. Whether or not they've been facing subpar fields... I just don't know. I am of the same opinion of Bernardini as you... I want to see more. The reality is though... IF he beats everyone in the BCC, will he be called a fraud because the quality of the field isn't considered "great?" I think that's what Travis Stone was saying... Bern can't win for winning.

[Dixie Porter]

Hey Paisjpg,

DO NOT mess with my posts. You are so far over your head it's embarassing.

:mad:

[Coach Pants]

I agree with all of that, but you have to admit that some people just aren't happy any way you look at it. Personally, I think we have been blessed with a few of the most talented 3 year olds I've seen. Whether or not they've been facing subpar fields... I just don't know. I am of the same opinion of Bernardini as you... I want to see more. The reality is though... IF he beats everyone in the BCC, will he be called a fraud because the quality of the field isn't considered "great?" I think that's what Travis Stone was saying... Bern can't win for winning.

One of the reasons why horse racing fans aren't happy is due to the small fields and the constant ducking and dodging the connections due to avoid real competition. The JCGC was a shining example of what's wrong with the sport. A 3yr old, not an accomplished older horse, scares away everyone but Aidan O'Brien and Nick Zito. One of the most prestigious races in North America is reduced to essentially a match race between a speed and fader and the greatest thing since sliced bread.

Now tell me, why should the racing fan be happy with a race like that?

P.S. And Bernardini's connections aren't innocent of this either. I don't care what anyone says. He wasn't ready for the Derby but magically two weeks later he's ready? Yeah right.

[blackthroatedwind]

Hey Pasijig,

DO NOT play with my posts. You are so far over your head it's embarassing.

:mad:

The internet tough guy has spoken.

[Cajungator26]

One of the reasons why horse racing fans aren't happy is due to the small fields and the constant ducking and dodging the connections due to avoid real competition. The JCGC was a shining example of what's wrong with the sport. A 3yr old, not an accomplished older horse, scares away everyone but Aidan O'Brien and Nick Zito. One of the most prestigious races in North America is reduced to essentially a match race between a speed and fader and the greatest thing since sliced bread.

Now tell me, why should the racing fan be happy with a race like that?

A racing fan SHOULDN'T be happy with a race like that, but the question is... IF he wins the BCC against another ho-hum field, will he be called a fraud?

[Coach Pants]

Hey Paisjpg,

DO NOT mess with my posts. You are so far over your head it's embarassing.

:mad:
Haha. Ohhhhh scary.

[paisjpq]

Hey Pasijig,

DO NOT play with my posts. You are so far over your head it's embarassing.

:mad:
dixie...I will edit any post--yours or otherwise that I feel crosses a line of proper personal etiquette. If you do not like that then I would be happy to show you the door. You can rest assured that I make these edits with steve's blessing so whining to him will not work.
If you wanted to disagree with travis stone's comment that is one thing...calling his words those of an imbecile are quite another and go against the atmosphere that steve is trying to foster here.

[Coach Pants]

A racing fan SHOULDN'T be happy with a race like that, but the question is... IF he wins the BCC against another ho-hum field, will he be called a fraud?
Nobody is calling him a fraud. He's a really good horse and he'll have to be considered great if he wins the race. Will it justify comparing him to the all-time greats? More than likely not, but it will happen unfortunately.

[Pointg5]

A racing fan SHOULDN'T be happy with a race like that, but the question is... IF he wins the BCC against another ho-hum field, will he be called a fraud?


Yes, I will think he's a great horse, I just want a bigger field. I do not dislike the horse, but I don't like all of the lavish praise he gets. I would happily proclaim him one of the greats if he wins, even if he guts it out and just gets up, I would be more happy with a finish like that, it would show he has some heart...

[Cajungator26]

Yes, I will think he's a great horse, I just want a bigger field. I do not dislike the horse, but I don't like all of the lavish praise he gets. I would happily proclaim him one of the greats if he wins, even if he guts it out and just gets up, I would be more happy with a finish like that, it would show he has some heart...

Agreed. And that's how I feel too...

[oracle80]

Agreed. And that's how I feel too...
Me too, and you are talking to a guy who thinks Larry Holmes got screwed out of his place in history in the boxing world because there wasn't anyone around for him to fight who was any good when he was in his prime.
I just wanna see him meet a full field of decent horses with an honest pace and should he win like a great horse, I'll shower the praise down upon him.

If this was a Pletcher or Dutrow horse or some trainer its trendy to bash, then he would be getting even more folks questioning him, and thats a fact.
I think after the BCC in less than 4 weeks that everyone will be on the same page with him. Especially if he meets Invasor.

[Dixie Porter]

dixie...I will edit any post--yours or otherwise that I feel crosses a line of proper personal etiquette. If you do not like that then I would be happy to show you the door. You can rest assured that I make these edits with steve's blessing so whining to him will not work.
If you wanted to disagree with travis stone's comment that is one thing...calling his words those of an imbecile are quite another and go against the atmosphere that steve is trying to foster here.

I do not know who you are and I could care less. You want Steve's bleesings that's fine with me.

I've grown to LIKE the guy and unless I'm a bad judge of people he can stand up for himself.

Whomever Travis Stone is the comments I pointed out were LAME.

As far as you go, GET LOST................

[randallscott35]

I do not know who you are and I could care less. You want Steve's bleesings that's fine with me.

I've grown to LIKE the guy and unless I'm a bad judge of people he can stand up for himself.

Whomever Travis Stone is the comments I pointed out were LAME.

As far as you go, GET LOST................

Cat Fight!!!!...Dixie, pais is the down and dirty type. She might be tough to take. I'll make the line -350 on Pais.

[Coach Pants]

Cat Fight!!!!...Dixie, pais is the down and dirty type. She might be tough to take. I'll make the line -350 on Pais.
Dixie gets the special line. He's got it at -160 Pais. He's connected like that.

[paisjpq]

I do not know who you are and I could care less. You want Steve's bleesings that's fine with me.

I've grown to LIKE the guy and unless I'm a bad judge of people he can stand up for himself.

Whomever Travis Stone is the comments I pointed out were LAME.

As far as you go, GET LOST................
if you want to continue to enjoy Steve's hospitality then you should let this go and accept that I have more power here than you.

[paisjpq]

Cat Fight!!!!...Dixie, pais is the down and dirty type. She might be tough to take. I'll make the line -350 on Pais.
thanks rand...but I don't fight old men, I was taught to respect my elders...that is, as long as they continue to deserve respect.

[randallscott35]

thanks rand...but I don't fight old men, I was taught to respect my elders...that is, as long as they continue to deserve respect.

Actually I thought Dixie was a girl on here, tough to know these things....

[Coach Pants]

Actually I thought Dixie was a girl on here, tough to know these things....
Odd. I thought Dixie and assto were husband and wife.

[Dixie Porter]

if you want to continue to enjoy Steve's hospitality then you should let this go and accept that I have more power here than you.

I assume you know what you "can do with your POWER".

As far as Steve goes, whatever he wants to do, it's his BALL.

Once again, GET LOST................

[slotdirt]

When did this paisjpq person become a moderator?

[paisjpq]

I assume you know what you "can do with your POWER".

As far as Steve goes, whatever he wants to do, it's his BALL.

Once again, GET LOST................
I do know what I can do with my "power" have fun taking some time off

[Kasept]

When did this paisjpq person become a moderator?

"Paisjpq" has been moderating for the past month and has been a tremendous help maintaining order here. She works in the industry; has total credibility in her knowledge of horses and the game and my full confidence as judge of what we are all trying to accomplish here as a community.

Having just read what went on here, I fully support her decision to give Dixie a week on the bench.. I appreciate everyone's zeal in posting their thoughts and opinions, but as stated numerous times previously, will NOT allow personal attacks and name-calling to rule the day around here...

Steve

[boswd]

This is what I don't get when talking about the strength of the field for the BCC. When in the history of the Breeders Cup, when has there ever been a top to bottom top level all multiple Grade I winners? When? It usually includes three maybe four horses that have won the major races in the year and the rest filled up with some Gr II and GrIII horses.
How is this year any different. You are going to have Lava Man, who has won everything on the West Coast, Invasor up until last Saturday has been winning everything on the East Coast, and Bernardini who has been winning everything thrown at him. How is this going to be so weak and what makes this soo different than any other year? I could be way off base but if anyone can show that in such and such a year the Classic had 9 multple GI winners but I don't think you can find one.
IMO this is one of the most anticpated BCC that I can remember. Three horses fianlly all going to meet to decide HOTY and each of the three are very accomplished.

[oracle80]

This is what I don't get when talking about the strength of the field for the BCC. When in the history of the Breeders Cup, when has there ever been a top to bottom top level all multiple Grade I winners? When? It usually includes three maybe four horses that have won the major races in the year and the rest filled up with some Gr II and GrIII horses.
How is this year any different. You are going to have Lava Man, who has won everything on the West Coast, Invasor up until last Saturday has been winning everything on the East Coast, and Bernardini who has been winning everything thrown at him. How is this going to be so weak and what makes this soo different than any other year? I could be way off base but if anyone can show that in such and such a year the Classic had 9 multple GI winners but I don't think you can find one.
IMO this is one of the most anticpated BCC that I can remember. Three horses fianlly all going to meet to decide HOTY and each of the three are very accomplished.

1998 my man, 1998. That was an allstar field. Maybe not all were in their best form, but it was an allstar field. 1988 wasn't too shabby either.

[slotdirt]

Sounds good, I just had no idea paisjpq was a moderator. I had always thought Steve and a-team were our benevolent bigger brothers.

[boswd]

1998 my man, 1998. That was an allstar field. Maybe not all were in their best form, but it was an allstar field. 1988 wasn't too shabby either.

OK is 1998 you had 4 very accomplished horses in that field. This year you have three, so far . Do you see my point.

[Coach Pants]

This is what I don't get when talking about the strength of the field for the BCC. When in the history of the Breeders Cup, when has there ever been a top to bottom top level all multiple Grade I winners? When? It usually includes three maybe four horses that have won the major races in the year and the rest filled up with some Gr II and GrIII horses.
How is this year any different. You are going to have Lava Man, who has won everything on the West Coast, Invasor up until last Saturday has been winning everything on the East Coast, and Bernardini who has been winning everything thrown at him. How is this going to be so weak and what makes this soo different than any other year? I could be way off base but if anyone can show that in such and such a year the Classic had 9 multple GI winners but I don't think you can find one.
IMO this is one of the most anticpated BCC that I can remember. Three horses fianlly all going to meet to decide HOTY and each of the three are very accomplished.
2000 was a hell of a field.

[oracle80]

OK is 1998 you had 4 very accomplished horses in that field. This year you have three, so far . Do you see my point.
yes I do Bos and was only pointing out the 98 running as an allstar field, its most definitely not the rule!!!

[Cannon Shell]

I agree with all of that, but you have to admit that some people just aren't happy any way you look at it. Personally, I think we have been blessed with a few of the most talented 3 year olds I've seen.

Problem is that you are young enough not to have seen the times when horses were truly campaigned not just "managed". Not an insult but the fact is that you were born too late to see what true great horses could accomplish.

[Cannon Shell]

P.S. And Bernardini's connections aren't innocent of this either. I don't care what anyone says. He wasn't ready for the Derby but magically two weeks later he's ready? Yeah right.


He broke his maiden the first week of March. Where do you suppose he would have got any graded stakes earnings between then and the derby?

[Coach Pants]

He broke his maiden the first week of March. Where do you suppose he would have got any graded stakes earnings between then and the derby?
Oh I forgot they cancelled all of the derby preps between march 21-april 14th.

My bad.

[oracle80]

He broke his maiden the first week of March. Where do you suppose he would have got any graded stakes earnings between then and the derby?
Never EVER will you hear me bashing anyone for skipping the tri crown or a race within that series.
You can see what the tri crown has done to our best three year olds in the past decade. Its no coiincidence that the most accomplished three year olds who went on to do great things in the summer/fall or at age 4, all skipped part or all of the Tri Crown. Messrs Bell, Ferguson and Albertrani(as well as Sheikh Mo) deserve kudos for not rushing him to the Crown. They have been rewarded with a sound animal for that decision. I wish more would follow their lead in the future.

[blackthroatedwind]

Problem is that you are young enough not to have seen the times when horses were truly campaigned not just "managed". Not an insult but the fact is that you were born too late to see what true great horses could accomplish.


That's the way I feel. I don't want to do that " you're too young to remember " crap but the way people seem to eagerly declare horses as " great " these days when they pale in comparison to horses from earlier eras is a bit frustrating. Sorry, Bernardini is not a great horse at this point in his career and as far as I'm concerned he needs to both run faster and accomplish more in order to move into that imaginary group. It's possible he will, and that would genuinely be exciting, but sadly we've gotten to a point when pretty much no horse is even allowed to establish greatness.

[Cannon Shell]

Oh I forgot they cancelled all of the derby preps between march 21-april 14th.

My bad.

He hit the gate when he broke his maiden, don't you think that he may have come out of the race a little sore since they didn't run him back until the 29th? I mean in the history of horseracing so many horses have broke their maiden in March and been pointed directly to the Derby. The fact he was able to win the Preakness in his first two turn race on May 20 was a top achievement

[Cannon Shell]

That's the way I feel. I don't want to do that " you're too young to remember " crap but the way people seem to eagerly declare horses as " great " these days when they pale in comparison to horses from earlier eras is a bit frustrating. Sorry, Bernardini is not a great horse at this point in his career and as far as I'm concerned he needs to both run faster and accomplish more in order to move into that imaginary group. It's possible he will, and that would genuinely be exciting, but sadly we've gotten to a point when pretty much no horse is even allowed to establish greatness.

It does make you feel a bit old though

[blackthroatedwind]

It does make you feel a bit old though

Yes, but lucky to have seen some horses to give me this perspective.

[Cannon Shell]

Never EVER will you hear me bashing anyone for skipping the tri crown or a race within that series.
You can see what the tri crown has done to our best three year olds in the past decade. Its no coiincidence that the most accomplished three year olds who went on to do great things in the summer/fall or at age 4, all skipped part or all of the Tri Crown. Messrs Bell, Ferguson and Albertrani(as well as Sheikh Mo) deserve kudos for not rushing him to the Crown. They have been rewarded with a sound animal for that decision. I wish more would follow their lead in the future.

Fact is that they were pretty aggresive going from maiden win to Withers to Preakness. That the horse won so easily distracts you from this.

[Coach Pants]

He hit the gate when he broke his maiden, don't you think that he may have come out of the race a little sore since they didn't run him back until the 29th? I mean in the history of horseracing so many horses have broke their maiden in March and been pointed directly to the Derby. The fact he was able to win the Preakness in his first two turn race on May 20 was a top achievement
A top achievement against tired horses. Pisses me off. There needs to be changes to the TC format. It's become nothing but a duck, dodge, and pounce on the weary series.

[oracle80]

Fact is that they were pretty aggresive going from maiden win to Withers to Preakness. That the horse won so easily distracts you from this.
The Withers was specifically chosen due to the fact that it was an allowance race type field of 4 horses.
Luxembourg had only won a maiden and non winners one. Doc Cheney not even that. I don't recall the straggler but he was the same.

The Preakness contained a small field as well, and other then Sweet, Bro D, and Barb, there was noone of any real consequence.
Those moves were not as aggressive as you paint them. They then backed off the Belmont where he would have been 3-5, that was very conservative and the key to his development.

[Coach Pants]

Fact is that they were pretty aggresive going from maiden win to Withers to Preakness. That the horse won so easily distracts you from this.
It's not aggresive to go after horses coming off two weeks rest.

[Cannon Shell]

Yes, but lucky to have seen some horses to give me this perspective.

That is true but it also makes me a little frustrated knowing that we probably wont see horses like that again.

[oracle80]

A top achievement against tired horses. Pisses me off. There needs to be changes to the TC format. It's become nothing but a duck, dodge, and pounce on the weary series.

Asking horses to run 3 miles and 15/16th's in three different states in 35 days is lunacy, pure lunacy. Anyone who chooses not to do that is just smart.

[oracle80]

It's not aggresive to go after horses coming off two weeks rest.
He never ran on two week rest, better check that out bro.

[Coach Pants]

Asking horses to run 3 miles and 15/16th's in three different states in 35 days is lunacy, pure lunacy. Anyone who chooses not to do that is just smart.
I agree. The Belmont should be held on July 4th.

[Cannon Shell]

The Withers was specifically chosen due to the fact that it was an allowance race type field of 4 horses.
Luxembourg had only won a maiden and non winners one. Doc Cheney not even that. I don't recall the straggler but he was the same.

The Preakness contained a small field as well, and other then Sweet, Bro D, and Barb, there was noone of any real consequence.
Those moves were not as aggressive as you paint them. They then backed off the Belmont where he would have been 3-5, that was very conservative and the key to his development.

Preakness looks softer now then it did then. And I hate to say it but the Belmont is really only important if you win the other 2 races.

[Coach Pants]

He never ran on two week rest, better check that out bro.
I'm talking about the horses that ran in the Derby.

[Cannon Shell]

It's not aggresive to go after horses coming off two weeks rest.

Dude it the freaking Preakness, open to all eligible 3 year olds, not the exhausted horse invitational. There have been a lot of horses that have gone Withers to Preakness and I may be wrong but I dont think any of them have ever won the Preakness.

[blackthroatedwind]

The Withers was specifically chosen due to the fact that it was an allowance race type field of 4 horses.



Actually I believe he was slated to go in a conditional allowance the Friday prior to the Withers and chose the Withers instead when told it was coming up so light.

[oracle80]

Actually I believe he was slated to go in a conditional allowance the Friday prior to the Withers and chose the Withers instead when told it was coming up so light.
Thats correct, he was actually "hustled" into the field when told only three others were running.
Who was the straggler who was 4th? I can't recall who it was.

[oracle80]

Dude it the freaking Preakness, open to all eligible 3 year olds, not the exhausted horse invitational. There have been a lot of horses that have gone Withers to Preakness and I may be wrong but I dont think any of them have ever won the Preakness.
Shell I think you have that one wrong. Although run the past few years three weeks before the Preakness, it used to be run only 13 days or 14 days prior to the Preakness. Thats why I don't recall many who tried that move.

[oracle80]

Actually I believe he was slated to go in a conditional allowance the Friday prior to the Withers and chose the Withers instead when told it was coming up so light.
Absolutely right in this contention. Read from Bloodhorse:
http://racing.bloodhorse.com/viewstory.asp?id=33255

[Cannon Shell]

Shell I think you have that one wrong. Although run the past few years three weeks before the Preakness, it used to be run only 13 days or 14 days prior to the Preakness. Thats why I don't recall many who tried that move.

Has been run many different dates in the Spring including at Aqueduct but has always been before the Preakness and has had many runners that opted out of the Derby and went on to try the Preakness.

[oracle80]

Has been run many different dates in the Spring including at Aqueduct but has always been before the Preakness and has had many runners that opted out of the Derby and went on to try the Preakness.
I'm sure it has, I just can't recall any who had a real shot. Can you recall any? I'm sure that there had to be one or two. I know that Scrappy T was 2nd to AA. thats about all I can recall.

[Cannon Shell]

I'm sure it has, I just can't recall any who had a real shot. Can you recall any? I'm sure that there had to be one or two. I know that Scrappy T was 2nd to AA. thats about all I can recall.
We cant recall many because they never win!

[oracle80]

We cant recall many because they never win!
Good point!

[MLC]

Jaipur in 1962: owner George D. Widnener didn't nominate for the Derby, preferred to try to win more prestigious Belmont instead. Jaipur won Withers (then run on the same day as the Derby), came back 2 weeks later to try the Preakness (1st attempt at 2 turns) and finished way out of the money. He won the Jersey Derby on Memorial Day (on a disqualification) and then won the Belmont.

[Danzig2]

Preakness looks softer now then it did then. And I hate to say it but the Belmont is really only important if you win the other 2 races.
but we know that NOW, no one knew before the race unfolded how things were going to go.

[LARHAGE]

He made a black or white statement. There is a grey area and that's where Bernardini lives for right now.

If Invasor doesn't run in the BCC it will arguably be one of the weakest classic fields yet. Outside of Lava Man and Bernardini, there are nothing but a bunch of bridesmaids.

Horse racing is just like any other sport. Teams and individuals are always compared to past champions and there are certain accomplishments that have to be met before the masses concede their greatness.

And really all of the doubters are speaking up because the Bernardini goo gooism is getting ridiculous. He's a really good horse but there are many questions going into the big race that have yet to be answered.

I would be more inclined to side with the naysayers of Bernardini if he was just beating his fields or having to try real hard to get his victories, but come on people, this horse is winning these races in ridiculous ease, he looks like he's cantering down a bridle path for Gods sakes! I have had the awesome experience of seeing some great horses in my 30 plus years as a race fan. I live and breathe horses everyday of my life, I don't need to see anything else from my own two eyes to realize that this is indeed a very special horse.

It's too bad Albertrani can't put a gun to some trainers heads and make them enter against Bernardini, some people need drastic validation I guess.

[Cajungator26]

I would be more inclined to side with the naysayers of Bernardini if he was just beating his fields or having to try real hard to get his victories, but come on people, this horse is winning these races in ridiculous ease, he looks like he's cantering down a bridle path for Gods sakes! I have had the awesome experience of seeing some great horses in my 30 plus years as a race fan. I live and breathe horses everyday of my life, I don't need to see anything else from my own two eyes to realize that this is indeed a very special horse.

It's too bad Albertrani can't put a gun to some trainers heads and make them enter against Bernardini, some people need drastic validation I guess.

I guess so...

He's not Pegasus. He's lost before and I'm sure he'll get beat again at some point in his career. I never said he wasn't a special horse... I'm just not willing to compare him to some of the all time greats just yet. He's never been challenged and I'm interested in seeing how he handles himself once he is (if he ever is :D .)

[oracle80]

Jaipur in 1962: owner George D. Widnener didn't nominate for the Derby, preferred to try to win more prestigious Belmont instead. Jaipur won Withers (then run on the same day as the Derby), came back 2 weeks later to try the Preakness (1st attempt at 2 turns) and finished way out of the money. He won the Jersey Derby on Memorial Day (on a disqualification) and then won the Belmont.

You are the man!! Thank you.

[Bold Reasoning]

In 1997, A.P. Indy's brilliant son Pulpit was wowing fans from January through April; he was the favorite for the Derby that year. Having never run as a two-year-old, he was being rushed to the big day. He ran a gallant fourth, suffering a career-ending injury. I think Tom Albertrani and Sheikh Maktoum remembered Pulpit as they mapped out Bernardini's campaign.

[LARHAGE]

I guess so...

He's not Pegasus. He's lost before and I'm sure he'll get beat again at some point in his career. I never said he wasn't a special horse... I'm just not willing to compare him to some of the all time greats just yet. He's never been challenged and I'm interested in seeing how he handles himself once he is (if he ever is :D .)

Yeah, he lost his first start after hitting the gate, since than he's run in strictly stakes with no other horse getting within sniffing distance of him at the wire, 3 Grade 1's ..... but, I'm not convinced.

[MLC]

Not "the man", the woman.

[Bold Brooklynite]

"Paisjpq" has been moderating for the past month and has been a tremendous help maintaining order here. She works in the industry; has total credibility in her knowledge of horses and the game and my full confidence as judge of what we are all trying to accomplish here as a community.

Having just read what went on here, I fully support her decision to give Dixie a week on the bench.. I appreciate everyone's zeal in posting their thoughts and opinions, but as stated numerous times previously, will NOT allow personal attacks and name-calling to rule the day around here...

Steve
Open Reply To Steve ...

Moderators should be moderate ... and understand that everyone here is an adult ... all of whom should be capable of dealing with whatever pixels may appear on their monitors.

"Bans" ... if they are to exist at all ... should be based on a specific set of rules ... clearly enunciated and understood by all ... not on the personal whims of a muscle-flexing "moderator." Football can't be played with moving goalposts ... and members of this forum shouldn't have to fear arbitrary expulsion based on the on-the-fly impulses of a sole arbitor.

My take: Short of persistent vulgarity and physical threats ... I don't believe anyone should be "banned" ... and certainly not for using the word "imbecile" and objecting to its deletion. Far worse things are posted on nearly every thread. As such ... I strongly disagree with the ban on Dixie.

It's your spaldeen ... and you can determine who plays with it ... but an atmosphere of interference and intimidation makes the entire concept much less palatable.

[philcski]

Whose fault is it that Bernardini never gets looked in the eye, when Lava Man is life and death to beat the vaunted Brother Derek, Magnum, Super Frolic triumverate over and over again? Should Bernardini slow down and look horses in the eye like Seabiscuit? It's hilarious. You're criticizing him for being too fast. I'm sure if Bernardini had "looked in the eye" of Wanderin Boy or Bluegrass Cat or Sweetnorthernsaint and "fought to win," you'd all be praising him, right? Bull****. Everyone would be on their "he struggled to win" high horse. All this ****ing west coast horse does is beat up on the same tired nags all year long, and you want to give him more credit because he's a "fighter"? How about he's just slower than Bernardini? You really think Bernardini would've had to be urged to beat Brother Derek by 2 1/4?

Nope, he already beat him by 15 in the Preakness.

[Bold Brooklynite]

Nope, he already beat him by 15 in the Preakness.
Hey Phil,

Nice to see you back ... keep on posting.