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I don't know if anyone is interested but Ventana hands down the worst trip of the year in the San Pedro stakes yesterday. Hard to believe neary a mention of it on a horseracing forum...:zz:
SCUDSBROTHER
01-20-2009, 07:56 PM
I don't know if anyone is interested but Ventana hands down the worst trip of the year in the San Pedro stakes yesterday. Hard to believe neary a mention of it on a horseracing forum...:zz:
I've become so accustomed to this guy's consistently inconsistent riding that I would expect nothing different. I guess it's just the way it's going to be with him. That ride in the 7th on Sunday was great. Put him on something with low odds, and you don't know what you're going to get. He's improving somewhat.
I've become so accustomed to this guy's consistently inconsistent riding that I would expect nothing different. I guess it's just the way it's going to be with him. That ride in the 7th on Sunday was great. Put him on something with low odds, and you don't know what you're going to get. He's improving somewhat.
He's okay when the money is not on the line, but when the races get bigger and the purses larger he hasn't handled it well to this point in his career. Ventana was 5 lengths the best yesterday in my estimation, funny thing is even after the steady down the backside he had a chance to win if he found room in the stretch, but twice found dead ends. He's got promise but he's still got a far ways to go to be in the league of the Gomez's.
SCUDSBROTHER
01-20-2009, 09:09 PM
JEKYLL HYDE JOEL.....It is amazing to watch. I've never seen anybody who's rides vary that much in quality. Guess he needs to just keep learning, cuz they certainly do school him(Bejarano almost seems to pick him out to mess with.)
He reminds me of Jose Santos abit, he'll take a hold of a horse, make a middle race move and either win going wide or run himself into trouble. I swear all his rides look like that.
SCUDSBROTHER
01-20-2009, 09:30 PM
He will always be a top 5 jock(because his good rides are really good.)
Gomez, Bejarano, and then there is a drop off to...Ezpinoza, Solis, Baze. I would agree he probably belongs in the top 5 or 6 at the moment.
SCUDSBROTHER
01-20-2009, 10:09 PM
Gomez, Bejarano, and then there is a drop off to...Ezpinoza, Solis, Baze. I would agree he probably belongs in the top 5 or 6 at the moment.
:zz: Solis? He has to have the best horse. He hasn't won with a 2nd or 3rd best horse since he got hurt. Seems like a decent person though(must be.)
:zz: Solis? He has to have the best horse. He hasn't won with a 2nd or 3rd best horse since he got hurt. Seems like a decent person though(must be.)
The Pamplemousse beating Square Eddie?
SCUDSBROTHER
01-21-2009, 12:58 PM
The Pamplemousse beating Square Eddie?
Don't you think he looked better than Square Eddie? I mean with no other pace(if they switch horses, there's no way Solis would win with Square Eddie.) Why do you think that Headley dumped Solis?
Don't you think he looked better than Square Eddie? I mean with no other pace(if they switch horses, there's no way Solis would win with Square Eddie.) Why do you think that Headley dumped Solis?
I played that race and did play The Pamplemousse on top, honestly I was looking for action and for the odds he was at 5/2 I think it was, if I wasn't bored I probably would have laid off. I thought he was stepping up significantly off of a Mdn win to face a horse that nearly won the BC Juvenile. He may turnout to be a good race horse, and he did set some pretty honest fractions, I thought Solis rode him very confidently that day. But really I can't say 100% for sure he is the better horse.
SCUDSBROTHER
01-22-2009, 05:31 PM
See the ride on 6/5 Brought It today? :p That's what I am talking about. Trouble at the start, but he makes it much worse by flattening her out with the wide move on the turn(wide on apex of the turn is a killer.) I haven't seen the head-on, but looked like Flores might have been doing that thing FAT MAN talks about(herding.) I don't care about any of that, but it's an example.
See the ride on 6/5 Brought It today? :p That's what I am talking about. Trouble at the start, but he makes it much worse by flattening her out with the wide move on the turn(wide on apex of the turn is a killer.) I haven't seen the head-on, but looked like Flores might have been doing that thing FAT MAN talks about(herding.) I don't care about any of that, but it's an example.
You mean Summer in Dixie? I didn't play today, so without knowing what kind of style this horse likes, on the surface it wasn't a good move going that wide on the turn. To Alex's defence it was post 12 and the options are few from 1 1-16th start, either you fire them out of the gate and try to get near the lead to save ground or you break last and take the horse back. Obviously the tactics didn't work. But how about that Chantal...again she's getting alot of run from her horses.
Just got around to seeing the head on for the Ventana race. Well, some of it and it was a tough trip. I don't even know if I'd call it a bad ride, because was trying to find room, there just wasn't any.
Ventana seems like an interesting 3 year old to me right now. I'm waiting for him to get back to dirt, his debut was awesome. And he had a interesting ride in the Champagne. He seems like he runs a lot better coming off the pace.
He was 5 lengths the best IMO, very tough trip, these kinda of trips are not very subtle and usually the public picks up on it. I'm hoping to play him back in his next race if the conditions are same and or maybe even higher. We'll just have to wait and see, he looks progressive. This race made me want to replay the BC Filly/Mare because I wanted to find some Patrick Husbands rides, and his ride on Sealy Hill was as perfect as could be, that was as perfect a trip a horse could get in a race, he's going to be a jockey to watch. A very solid rider.
SCUDSBROTHER
01-23-2009, 04:21 PM
You mean Summer in Dixie? I didn't play today, so without knowing what kind of style this horse likes, on the surface it wasn't a good move going that wide on the turn. To Alex's defence it was post 12 and the options are few from 1 1-16th start, either you fire them out of the gate and try to get near the lead to save ground or you break last and take the horse back. Obviously the tactics didn't work. But how about that Chantal...again she's getting alot of run from her horses.
No, Thursday race #4 horse # 6 ("Brought It.") That's why I say be very careful using this guy on chalk. I mean she was how much the best? Reared at the start(sht happens when he rides chalk,k,) and even if that has nothing to do with the jock, he totally flattens her by going so wide on the apex of the turn. I mean, you can't rear at the start, and go wide on the apex of the turn here. If he stayed reasonably close to saving ground, he easily wins(even with rearing at the start.) Like I said, he probably still should of got the win, because it looked like they let Flores do anything at the end of that race(to hold her off.) I don't have the head-on, but it looks like she had the run to get by, and was herded-intimidated (or anything else Flores could pull out of his trick bag.) Like I said, I don't care about the race. I'm just saying to be very careful with Joel on low odd stuff. I saw progress last week, but this week he had a relapse("Ventana," and "Brought It.") If you don't like to ever blame jocks, then fine. Call it bad luck. Just be aware he has had some "bad luck" on chalk. He likes those 11-1 types like he brought in last Sunday in the 7th. Those types he rides like an absolute champion. In fairness, he rode 2 chalks very well last Friday. He can do it. I wouldn't rely on him on chalk. A couple years ago, Gomez was having trouble on chalk(especially rail trip chalk.) He does it rarely now(2 weeks ago today in the 7th race.) Gomez has improved considerably on chalk. I think Rosario will do the same.
No, Thursday race #4 horse # 6 ("Brought It.") That's why I say be very careful using this guy on chalk. I mean she was how much the best? Reared at the start(sht happens when he rides chalk,k,) and even if that has nothing to do with the jock, he totally flattens her by going so wide on the apex of the turn. I mean, you can't rear at the start, and go wide on the apex of the turn here. If he stayed reasonably close to saving ground, he easily wins(even with rearing at the start.) Like I said, he probably still should of got the win, because it looked like they let Flores do anything at the end of that race(to hold her off.) I don't have the head-on, but it looks like she had the run to get by, and was herded-intimidated (or anything else Flores could pull out of his trick bag.) Like I said, I don't care about the race. I'm just saying to be very careful with Joel on low odd stuff. I saw progress last week, but this week he had a relapse("Ventana," and "Brought It.") If you don't like to ever blame jocks, then fine. Call it bad luck. Just be aware he has had some "bad luck" on chalk. He likes those 11-1 types like he brought in last Sunday in the 7th. Those types he rides like an absolute champion. In fairness, he rode 2 chalks very well last Friday. He can do it. I wouldn't rely on him on chalk. A couple years ago, Gomez was having trouble on chalk(especially rail trip chalk.) He does it rarely now(2 weeks ago today in the 7th race.) Gomez has improved considerably on chalk. I think Rosario will do the same.
Watched the replay, to be fair the break cost Brought It.
However, the part I agree with you 100% is the apex of the turn, there is no doubt he should have stayed on the rail going into the turn and the way the race unfolded he would have split horses and won the race probably saving 2 lengths conservatively speaking in the process. Plus the herding mentality you are referring to, I call it cover and for whatever reasons when a horse "splits horses" they seem to have that extra step. Watch Husbands in the third yesterday, even though the horse finished 2nd he almost took down the big favorite with the split move. In post #5 of this thread I observed what Joel's normal style when he rides also.
I don't bet chalk but will keep your observations in mind, the only cautionary thing to add to Joel, is that I see a drop off in the quality of his rides when he steps up to Stakes races, ie Ventana for one. I don't know if he feels more pressure or not but though I loath Mike Smith, he is one Jockey that elevates his game when the stks are higher. I think he mails in some races which I have a problem with him as a rider. Personally I prefer a Garrett Gomez or Richie Migliore who seem to ride claiming races as they were stakes races, Stevens was like this also. He was quoted once as saying he was very mindful of the bettors and I really respected that coming from a guy of his level.
Lastkidpickedingymclass
01-27-2009, 11:53 PM
Ventana was much the best in that race and had the trip from hell. Did a tremendous job to end up as close as he did.
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