Dennis of cork, albarado off??

[wac]

I just read on bloodhorse that albarado isn't interested in staying on dennis for KD. Why you think he is bailing? I think this horse pretty much stacks up with just about anyone other then Pyro. Just seems odd to me.

[The Indomitable DrugS]

He commited to riding Country Star before DoC's connections made an audible out of the Rebel and into the Wood.

[wac]

country star? isnt that the frankle filly? i didnt know they were talking about running in the Derby with her.

[The Indomitable DrugS]

They aren't.

[Danzig]

and for those taking notes on what jocks are going where, gomez has committed to court vision, rather than colonel john.

[jcs11204]

i read that the best in the business julian is riding dennis or porkchop, i like him better with julian

[jcs11204]

and for those taking notes on what jocks are going where, gomez has committed to court vision, rather than colonel john.

thats big time stuff.... i thought court vision was sneaky good in the fountain of youth and i think he will run 2-3 in the wood and be a nice price in the derby

[Danzig]

I just read on bloodhorse that albarado isn't interested in staying on dennis for KD. Why you think he is bailing? I think this horse pretty much stacks up with just about anyone other then Pyro. Just seems odd to me.

he's going with the horse he had already committed to, with the realization that whoever gets dennis in the wood may keep the ride for the derby. can't say i blame him, denis has all kinds of ??? hovering over him now.

[Danzig]

i read that the best in the business julian is riding dennis or porkchop, i like him better with julian

there's a horse named porkchop???

[NTamm1215]

I thought the Gomez off Colonel John thing had more to do with Eoin Harty being committed to Nakatani on CJ. Gomez only rode him last time because Nakatani was still injured.

NT

[wac]

do you guys/gals read anything into a jock taking off a horse? I thought that after his last race albarado was pretty much sticking on him. Julian (it seems) has been having a rough time lately. Is there any real line up as which jock is on which horse at this point. I would assume bridgemon on pyro but other then that does anyone know anything?

[tiggerv]

I thought the Gomez off Colonel John thing had more to do with Eoin Harty being committed to Nakatani on CJ. Gomez only rode him last time because Nakatani was still injured.

NT

I think that's the case too.

[miraja2]

and for those taking notes on what jocks are going where, gomez has committed to court vision, rather than colonel john.
People taking notes on that should find a new hobby.

[NTamm1215]

People taking notes on that should find a new hobby.

So when it's announced that a horse you like for the Derby is going to be ridden by a 2nd tier jockey you simply don't bat an eye?

NT

[The Indomitable DrugS]

So when it's announced that a horse you like for the Derby is going to be ridden by a 2nd tier jockey you simply don't bat an eye?

NT

If Stew Elliot and the '05 version of Mike Smith can win in back-to-back years - just about anyone can if they have the right horse.

[Bigsmc]

So when it's announced that a horse you like for the Derby is going to be ridden by a 2nd tier jockey you simply don't bat an eye?

NT

Yup.

[Danzig]

People taking notes on that should find a new hobby.

when i was at the track the other day i didn't pay any attention to what jock was listed-except to note an entrymate needed a rider if both were to run.

[Danzig]

I thought the Gomez off Colonel John thing had more to do with Eoin Harty being committed to Nakatani on CJ. Gomez only rode him last time because Nakatani was still injured.

NT

have no idea, the way the article was written it appeared it was gomez and his agent who made the call. but that doesn't really mean anything.

[Linny]

Who exactly is Albarado taking off for? Other than one or two colts, Denis seems pretty highly thought of and I can't imagine he's likely to get onto the colts regarded higher than Denis. Didn't he pick up the mount on Denis when Calvin Borel had a conflict?

[ARyan]

do you guys/gals read anything into a jock taking off a horse? I thought that after his last race albarado was pretty much sticking on him. Julian (it seems) has been having a rough time lately. Is there any real line up as which jock is on which horse at this point. I would assume bridgemon on pyro but other then that does anyone know anything?

177 - 29-38-19
Earnings - $1,322,221
Win % (In-The-Money %)
16% (48%)


I don't know if I would call that "having a rough time lately."

[Danzig]

Who exactly is Albarado taking off for? Other than one or two colts, Denis seems pretty highly thought of and I can't imagine he's likely to get onto the colts regarded higher than Denis. Didn't he pick up the mount on Denis when Calvin Borel had a conflict?

yes, he got denis when calvin went with turf war (whoops).

albarado has opted to ride country star in the ashland.

as for denis being highly thought of-- i think that was before his connections suddenly changed his schedule, deciding to skip the southwest, wait for the wood, and then go to the derby from there--meaning he'll run one race in 11 weeks.

[The Indomitable DrugS]

Denis Of Cork is now going to the ILL Derby

[Danzig]

wonder where they'll point him to tomorrow...

[Coach Pants]

The horse is more likely to run in the Irish Derby than the one in Kentucky.

[Danzig]

they could...just because no horse has ever won on that kind of layoff, doesn't mean he couldn't.:rolleyes:


can you tell i just finished reading the discussion about big brown starting from the 12 hole??

[tiggerv]

At this point I wouldn't be surprised if they just trained up to the Derby.

What do Razogin and Jerry Brown suggest?

[Danzig]

What do Razogin and Jerry Brown suggest?


dunno, but my magic eight ball said ask later.

[Kasept]

Simply put... Anyone wanting to know where the decisions are coming from can look to Mark Reid, long-time adviser to the Warrens (i.e. Saint Liam).

[Cannon Shell]

Simply put... Anyone wanting to know where the decisions are coming from can look to Mark Reid, long-time adviser to the Warrens (i.e. Saint Liam).
I guess all those years at Philly Park gave him his Derby Trail expertise

[JJP]

Denis Of Cork is now going to the ILL Derby

Wherever he runs, he will be overbet, IMO.

[jcs11204]

Steve, I'd like nothing more than to see Denis of Cork win the Derby, as I have him in a few futures. But, you'd have to admit that all of these changes in plans can't be good. Whatever happened to having a plan and sticking to it? Like I said, i hope their decisions work out, but they are very suspect, especially this close to the Derby.


i think i said a while back that i strongly dislike this horse, and took a lot of crap for it..... connections dont know what to do, and simply put hes just not that good

[JJP]

If the Illinois Derby and the Wood Memorial are run on the same day, then it doesn't matter whether he runs at Sportman's Park or at Aqueduct.

[I liked Haskin's reporting of someone who said that trainers are manufacturing patterns by planning the Derby preps.]

There is no more Sportsman's. The Ill Derby is run at Hawthorne.

[JJP]

There is no more Sportsman's. The Ill Derby is run at Hawthorne.

Sportsman's was a great track when it was 5/8ths. An apprentice rider got killed there in the early 90s and Lukas said "I'll never run a horse there again", The comment was stupid because: 1) Lukas never ran horses at Spt anyways, and 2) the sharp turns had nothing to do with the rider getting killed.

So what did they do? The elongated the stretches and still kept the hairpin turns, so it was like a paperclip, or maybe a stretched out rubber band. The fans loved the old 5/8th track and hated the conversion. Then came the strange twist with building an auto track outside the dirt surface. That helped speed things up to where things are now: no more Sportsman's....R.I.P.

[Kasept]

i think i said a while back that i strongly dislike this horse, and took a lot of crap for it..... connections dont know what to do, and simply put hes just not that good
You don't know what you're talking about. Those 'connections' that 'don't know what to do' won a Breeders Cup Classic and had a Horse of the Year. David Carroll had a plan he wanted to stick with and would be doing things differently but is being countermanded by the owners' long time adviser. Like most subtleties, it's obviously lost on you that the horse is an undefeated graded stakes winner; has run faster on figs than all but Pyro and War Pass; and is better than virtually every other three year old in the country.

[Kasept]

I guess all those years at Philly Park gave him his Derby Trail expertise
;)

[Kasept]

Steve, I'd like nothing more than to see Denis of Cork win the Derby, as I have him in a few futures. But, you'd have to admit that all of these changes in plans can't be good. Whatever happened to having a plan and sticking to it? Like I said, i hope their decisions work out, but they are very suspect, especially this close to the Derby.
Carroll is frustrated as his plan was established going back to last year. He is being a team player trying to say the right thing, but I'm sure he isn't happy. He is also quite concerned that if things don't go as well as they hope he will be the one taking the heat... as he already has somewhat from people who don't understand the way things work frequently in these situations.

And to make it clear... Anyone who thinks that Carroll wouldn't know how to bring a horse into the Triple Crown the right way is unenlightened. He was there every step of the way galloping Easy Goer.

[zippyneedsawin]

You don't know what you're talking about.

This just in..... :rolleyes:

[Kasept]

I've never said Carroll can't get a horse to the triple crown, of course he can. My only issue is the plan keeps changing. I think that the connections, other than Carroll, are making Carroll's job a lot more difficult than it has to be, by changing their mind so much. Should be interesting to see how it all works out.
Wasn't directing the my closing comment at you.. ;)

[Coach Pants]

David Carroll best trainer evar picture coming soon.

He galloped Easy Goer fer christsakes!!!!

:rolleyes:

[Danzig]

i think i said a while back that i strongly dislike this horse, and took a lot of crap for it..... connections dont know what to do, and simply put hes just not that good

he's not that good? now, that i disagree with. if anything costs this horse, it's the sudden indecisions over the last few weeks that will have cost him, and the one race in 11 weeks is a big concern. i don't think the HORSE has done anything wrong tho.
i liked this horse more than most in this crop, and with war passes recent non effort, i think the field is wide open. but i'm lukewarm towards denis now due to the changes we've seen recently with his schedule. the name sucks, but lil e tee won, so that doesn't mean much. i don't like cool coal mans moniker either, but still picked him to win the FOY.

[The Indomitable DrugS]

And to make it clear... Anyone who thinks that Carroll wouldn't know how to bring a horse into the Triple Crown the right way is unenlightened. He was there every step of the way galloping Easy Goer.

I have no knocks on Carroll at all - but I think you are really overplaying this 'he galloped Easy Goer' thing a lot.

In my always humble opinion, the fact that he got up on Easy Goer (who lost the Derby at 4/5, lost the Preakness at 3/5, and lost the Breeders Cup Classic at 1/2) doesn't really mean that much to me when we are talking about Denis Of Cork.

I believe whoever is calling the shots with DoC is doing a masterful job.

A FG Alw race, followed by a Graded stake that features Turf War and the returning Riley Tucker as the two favorites, followed by the Ill Derby is taking the path of least resistance into the Derby.

[Kasept]

I have no knocks on Carroll at all - but I think you are really overplaying this 'he galloped Easy Goer' thing a lot.

In my always humble opinion, the fact that he got up on Easy Goer (who lost the Derby at 4/5, lost the Preakness at 3/5, and lost the Breeders Cup Classic at 1/2) doesn't really mean that much to me when we are talking about Denis Of Cork..
You don't really want to argue the merits of Easy Goer with me. I don't really wish to get into a savaging of Day and incriminations of Whittingham in public. Hopefully it will suffice to say that there are enough people out there whose opinions you respect that know the score on this topic that ensure the scale always comes out on Easy Goer's side.

And I'm not overplaying a trainer's preparedness to hone a horse THAT HE RIDES when it comes to having one right for a specific race or set of races.. You're out of your element on this particular topic.

[The Indomitable DrugS]

You don't really want to argue the merits of Easy Goer with me. I don't really wish to get into a savaging of Day and incriminations of Whittingham in public. Hopefully it will suffice to say that there are enough people out there whose opinions you respect that know the score on this topic that ensure the scale always comes out on Easy Goer's side.

Easy Goer was about as much horse as I have ever seen.

But what he has to do with Denis Of Cork's chances in the Derby I simply don't know.


And I'm not overplaying a trainer's preparedness to hone a horse THAT HE RIDES when it comes to having one right for a specific race or set of races.. You're out of your element on this particular topic.

I laughed.

[Coach Pants]

Hmm. I've got an idea.

Maybe an Easy Goer replica good luck miniature (kinda like the good luck trolls but a horse) would be the latest craze? Numerous miniatures to choose from with a wide array of neon manes . Also for hardcore Easy Goer good luck miniature fans a limited edition David Carroll - Exercise Rider miniature and a saddle.

[miraja2]

You don't really want to argue the merits of Easy Goer with me. I don't really wish to get into a savaging of Day and incriminations of Whittingham in public. Hopefully it will suffice to say that there are enough people out there whose opinions you respect that know the score on this topic that ensure the scale always comes out on Easy Goer's side.
Oh, let's go ahead and get into it. :D
Easy Goer was one hell of a horse. There is no question about it.
That being said, the better horse won three out of four in that series. Not even nearly twenty years of New York-biased whining coupled with accusations of questionable merit can change that fact.

[Kasept]

Easy Goer was about as much horse as I have ever seen.

But what he has to do with Denis Of Cork's chances in the Derby I simply don't know.

I laughed.

The comments in question had only to do with the impuning of Easy Goer's preparedness for the Spring Classics, which had been my original point of reference. He has to do with Carroll prepping DoC for the TC season by way of having been through the TC with a top horse.. something many other trainers have not..


.. and I'm glad your sense of humor is intact. ;)

[Kasept]

Oh, let's go ahead and get into it. :D
Easy Goer was one hell of a horse. There is no question about it.
That being said, the better horse won three out of four in that series. Not even nearly twenty years of New York-biased whining coupled with accusations of questionable merit can change that fact.

Frozen blood samples would have come in handy at some point over these 20 years..

[The Indomitable DrugS]

The comments in question had only to do with the impuning of Easy Goer's preparedness for the Spring Classics, which had been my original point of reference. He has to do with Carroll prepping DoC for the TC season by way of having been through the TC with a top horse.. something many other trainers have not..

Ok, but Easy Goer is not the greatest example of a horse who was so well 'primed' to peak on the big day.

He lost the BC Juvenile at 1/5, lost the Ky Derby at 4/5, lost the Preakness at 3/5, and lost the BC Classic at 1/2.

I know the two CD losses can be explained away based on track condition, and the Preakness and BC Classic losses can be explained away by Easy Goer's lack of professionalism. Sure you can blame Day for a pair of poor looking rides in those two races, but it was the horse who ducked in at the gap in the Classic, and it was the horse who ran in spots, raced erratic, and appeared to lose focus in those races.

Easy Goer was such an overwhelming favorite in those races simply because he was so awesome in all of his other races. He actually ran excellent in defeat in two of the three SS losses as well.

Let me say again - I don't view DoC being trained by Carroll as a negative in any way.

I think "having the experience of having been through the triple crown with a top horse" is a bit overrated anyway. And in Carroll's case, I guess it came 19 years ago and as an excersize rider.

Wasn't Jan Rushton an excersize rider for Shug?

[RolloTomasi]

Frozen blood samples would have come in handy at some point over these 20 years..

Where is this "doped" Sunday Silence angle coming from?

It's certainly interesting, because it was Easy Goer that dropped dead of cancer at the tender age of 9.

Of course, he was stabled for the most part at Belmont, so maybe those X-File guys were spraying the barn area even back then.

Mr. Wilhelm?

My name is Tina...

You chose HIM over ME?!

[Bystander]

Where is this "doped" Sunday Silence angle coming from?

It's certainly interesting, because it was Easy Goer that dropped dead of cancer at the tender age of 9.

Of course, he was stabled for the most part at Belmont, so maybe those X-File guys were spraying the barn area even back then.

Mr. Wilhelm?

My name is Tina...

You chose HIM over ME?!

Your Seinfeld-savant skills are truly wasted here, Mr. Tomasi.

[RolloTomasi]

Your Seinfeld-savant skills are truly wasted here, Mr. Tomasi.

I'll work nights?

I'm sorry...we have to let you go.

But I don't even really work here!

That's what makes this so difficult...

[miraja2]

Where is this "doped" Sunday Silence angle coming from?

It's certainly interesting, because it was Easy Goer that dropped dead of cancer at the tender age of 9.
While I strenuously disagree with the notion that the so-called "evidence" in this matter has ANY validity whatsoever, I assure you that Steve isn't just making this up on the spot. Nor he is in any way alone in making this argument.
For nearly two decades the conspiracy-theorists (who curiously all seem to hail from one state) have been arguing that the Belmont Stakes was the only meeting between these two horses in which Harthill couldn't administer some nefarious substance to Sunday Silence. Basically the argument goes that Whittingham was a despicable cheater who was prevented from cheating in this one race by the tremendous barn-security that exists - apparently - "only in New York."
I don't buy it.....but there are plenty of people who do.
I assume they probably also have some explanation/excuse for why Sunday Silence outperformed Easy Goer in the shed, but it too probably doesn't involve saying the words, "Sunday Silence was simply better."

[Bystander]

I'll work nights?

I'm sorry...we have to let you go.

But I don't even really work here!

That's what makes this so difficult...

Your fly's open.

[The Indomitable DrugS]

I assume they probably also have some explanation/excuse for why Sunday Silence outperformed Easy Goer in the shed, but it too probably doesn't involve saying the words, "Sunday Silence was simply better."

I don't think that proved much of anything about who was the better horse.

SS sired many excellent turf horses...but him being such a great turf sire shouldn't have come as a big shock, as his sire Halo was a Grade 1 winner on turf and his dam Wishing Well moved way up on turf and went from a claimer to a multiple Graded Stakes winner.

[miraja2]

I don't think that proved much of anything about who was the better horse.
SS sired many excellent turf horses...but him being such a great turf sire shouldn't have come as a big shock, as his sire Halo was a Grade 1 winner on turf and his dam Wishing Well moved way up on turf and went from a claimer to a multiple Graded Stakes winner.
Of course not. I never suggested that it did.

[RolloTomasi]

Your fly's open.

By the end, he was left with nothing but a deformed claw...and had to rely on Cub Scouts to feed him...

[ArlJim78]

Your Seinfeld-savant skills are truly wasted here, Mr. Tomasi.
he'll have to do better than that I'm afraid.

Wilhelm says "my name is Tonya", not "Tina"

its as if you have no business skills whatsoever.

well I'm just trying to get ahead.

[RolloTomasi]

While I strenuously disagree with the notion that the so-called "evidence" in this matter has ANY validity whatsoever, I assure you that Steve isn't just making this up on the spot. Nor he is in any way alone in making this argument.
For nearly two decades the conspiracy-theorists (who curiously all seem to hail from one state) have been arguing that the Belmont Stakes was the only meeting between these two horses in which Harthill couldn't administer some nefarious substance to Sunday Silence. Basically the argument goes that Whittingham was a despicable cheater who was prevented from cheating in this one race by the tremendous barn-security that exists - apparently - "only in New York."

Thanks. I never knew there was that much talk. Shocking that the beloved Alex Harthill was involved in the story. Personally, I'm still waiting for the DRF to add vet stats to its PPs. I'm sure NY's Doc Cheney and his young Vader-like protege, Dr. Allday used only Jedi holistic powers to maintain the Phipps Empire....er...I mean...Stable...

[RolloTomasi]

he'll have to do better than that I'm afraid.

Wilhelm says "my name is Tonya", not "Tina"

its as if you have no business skills whatsoever.

well I'm just trying to get ahead.

What's my name?

....uhhh......Mulva?

[ArlJim78]

What's my name?

....uhhh......Mulva?

I prefer to be called maestro.

[miraja2]

Thanks. I never knew there was that much talk. Shocking that the beloved Alex Harthill was involved in the story. Personally, I'm still waiting for the DRF to add vet stats to its PPs. I'm sure NY's Doc Cheney and his young Vader-like protege, Dr. Allday used only Jedi holistic powers to maintain the Phipps Empire....er...I mean...Stable...
Yeah, there have always been a lot of allegations.
Are they legitimate? As I said before, I don't think so, but there are a lot of smart and informed people (like Steve apparently) that disagree.
Basically, I have always been such a huge fan of Sunday Silence, that I am not really sure how unbiased my opinion in this matter can really be.

[RolloTomasi]

I prefer to be called maestro.

So he told you to put the balm on...and you DO IT?!

[JJP]

Oh, let's go ahead and get into it. :D
Easy Goer was one hell of a horse. There is no question about it.
That being said, the better horse won three out of four in that series. Not even nearly twenty years of New York-biased whining coupled with accusations of questionable merit can change that fact.

You are right on with that last comment. Yeah EG beat SS big at 1 1/2 miles, but at 1 1/2 miles, who cares? Its an irrelevant distance in American dirt racing. But I'm sure I'll get criticized for agreeing with you on this; and it is an East Coast dominated board.

[miraja2]

You are right on with that last comment. Yeah EG beat SS big at 1 1/2 miles, but at 1 1/2 miles, who cares? Its an irrelevant distance in American dirt racing. But I'm sure I'll get criticized for agreeing with you on this; and it is an East Coast dominated board.
Nothing wrong with the East Coast. I lived in NYC for three years and loved every minute of it. I just think that on this one issue, where there was a great NY horse and a great Cali-horse with a great rivalry, some people still just have trouble granting Sunday Silence his due credit.
I also don't know that I would call 12f an "irrelevant distance."

[Cajungator26]

Jezuztapdancingchrist, Hossy...

Please change your avatar. :rolleyes:

[IrishofNDMan]

what is the avatar all about?

[10 pnt move up]

If Stew Elliot and the '05 version of Mike Smith can win in back-to-back years - just about anyone can if they have the right horse.

you know, I have had just about enough of you....Smith took Giacomo to a derby win....think about that for a minute, Giacomo for christs sake, not Spectactular Bid, that should get you in the hall of fame alone.

[ArlJim78]

So he told you to put the balm on...and you DO IT?!
serenity now!

[Indian Charlie]

you know, I have had just about enough of you....Smith took Giacomo to a derby win....think about that for a minute, Giacomo for christs sake, not Spectactular Bid, that should get you in the hall of fame alone.

Oh dear God, do you realize what you just did?

[The Bid]

Used Mike Smith and Spectacular Bid in the same sentence? Tragic

[docicu3]

Jezuztapdancingchrist, Hossy...

Please change your avatar. :rolleyes:


I was waiting for someone to bust on harnessass....but the most interesting moment in this thread was the SS doping Byk Bomb which clearly deserves an explanation even by PM (hint hint!!!). Watching EG and SS go after each other brought me into this game......if it was all BarryBondslike I am gonna have to take a pistol to........nevermind!!

[Rudeboyelvis]

That's my boy Warran. He's a baller.

You know you all love his "huge bombs" and "pool shots" :eek: :rolleyes:

I vote for keeping the Avatar, Hoss :cool:

[ArlJim78]

You know you all love his "huge bombs" and "pool shots" :eek: :rolleyes:

I vote for keeping the Avatar, Hoss :cool:
no doubt he's still making the "magic" happen down in the basement.

[slotdirt]

Mike Smith's ride on Flashy Bull the subsequent year was also the stuff of legend.

[Bigsmc]

no doubt he's still making the "magic" happen down in the basement.

MY PALACE WHERE ALL THE MAGIC HAPPENS
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v1...ingroom021.jpg

[RolloTomasi]

It's not a lie....if you believe it.

You should meet my friend Torr.

Isn't that guy in jail?

No...he's out...he got out!

[RolloTomasi]

serenity now!

Am I crazy or is that a lot of gum?

That's a lotta gum!