3/8 (3yo): Gotham; La Derby; El Camino Real

[Kasept]

AQU 8th Gotham Stakes (G3)

ANTICIPATED FIELD...

Giant Moon
Visionaire
Eaton's Gift
Holidaze
Roman Emperor
Texas Wildcatter
Ling Ling Qi
Saratoga Russell
Southern Terminus



FG 9th (4:48) Louisiana Derby (G2)

1 1/16 Miles | Open | 3 Year Olds Stakes | Purse: $600,000

1 Stevil Borel C H 122 Blk-On L
2 My Pal Charlie Leparoux J R 122 L
3 Pyro Bridgmohan S X 122 L
4 J Be K Desormeaux K J 122 L
5 Unbridled Vicar Lanerie C J 122 L
6 Tale of Ekati Prado E S 122 L
7 Blackberry Road Albarado R J 122 L
8 Yankee Bravo Solis A 122 L
9 Majestic Warrior Gomez G K 122 L



BM 8th (4:15) El Camino Real Derby (G3)

1 1/16 Miles | Open | 3 Year Olds Stakes | Purse: $150,000

1 Nikki'sgoldensteed Court J K 117 L
2 General Dan Kaenel K 115 L
3 Autism Awareness Contreras L 115 L
4 Bamaha Breeze Martinez L V 115 L
5 Tres Borrachos Garcia M 115 L
6 Pleasure Grounds Schvaneveldt C P 115 L
7 Behindatthebar Baze M C 115 L
8 Coast Guard Gryder A T 115 L
9 Dreamed Day Alvarado F T 115 L
10 Master Daniel Baze R A 115 L

[asudevil]

I think this is a very interesting group especially with the addition of Coast Guard.BM 8th (4:15) El Camino Real Derby (G3)

1 1/16 Miles | Open | 3 Year Olds Stakes | Purse: $150,000

1 Nikki'sgoldensteed Court J K 117 L
2 General Dan Kaenel K 115 L
3 Autism Awareness Contreras L 115 L
4 Bamaha Breeze Martinez L V 115 L
5 Tres Borrachos Garcia M 115 L
6 Pleasure Grounds Schvaneveldt C P 115 L
7 Behindatthebar Baze M C 115 L
8 Coast Guard Gryder A T 115 L
9 Dreamed Day Alvarado F T 115 L
10 Master Daniel Baze R A 115 L

[westcoastinvader]

I think this is a very interesting group especially with the addition of Coast Guard.

Three Drunks is a nice hunch play.

(Tres Borrachos)

Martin Garcia, in a return to Bay Meadows, also makes him worth a 2nd look.

[RolloTomasi]

Behindatthebar should light these up. I suppose his pedigree is geared towards sprinting, but his running style certainly suggests this is in range. This could be Todd Pletcher's main Derby hope after the weekend.

[Danzig]

BM 8th (4:15) El Camino Real Derby (G3)

1 1/16 Miles | Open | 3 Year Olds Stakes | Purse: $150,000

1 Nikki'sgoldensteed Court J K 117 L
2 General Dan Kaenel K 115 L
3 Autism Awareness Contreras L 115 L
4 Bamaha Breeze Martinez L V 115 L
5 Tres Borrachos Garcia M 115 L
6 Pleasure Grounds Schvaneveldt C P 115 L
7 Behindatthebar Baze M C 115 L
8 Coast Guard Gryder A T 115 L
9 Dreamed Day Alvarado F T 115 L
10 Master Daniel Baze R A 115 L

it's like looking at the last few ballots for president.

[Coach Pants]

Looking through the pp's I noticed the name Autism Awareness and his past work and couldn't help but laugh out loud hysterically for a good 15 seconds. Haven't done that in a long time.

[letswastemoney]

Looking through the pp's I noticed the name Autism Awareness and his past work and couldn't help but laugh out loud hysterically for a good 15 seconds. Haven't done that in a long time. Wasn't he struggling through 50,000 maiden claimers just a few months ago?

[The Indomitable DrugS]

Looking through the pp's I noticed the name Autism Awareness and his past work and couldn't help but laugh out loud hysterically for a good 15 seconds. Haven't done that in a long time.

A four furlong 46.80 workout made you laugh that much?

[Coach Pants]

A four furlong 46.80 workout made you laugh that much?

Yes. There is no way this horse wasn't all out for that work. They are dressing up a mule. Why don't they get Dustin Hoffman to ride the horse instead of Contreras? Afterall isn't it publicity that they want? What else could explain this insane jump in class?

I could be wrong and this horse could be the real deal in what is a horrible graded race. I was wrong about the filly in the Battaglia...

[cowgirlintexas]

The way the Derby Trail has been thus far.. I'm sure some are coming out of the wood work now, thinking "Why not"... Pretty "Ho-hum". I sure hope this weekend changes things a bit and we can start to get a clearer picture. Personally, I am hoping to see how Coast Guard does. He should romp against those.

[Sightseek]

No Barrier Reef? Anyone know what race he is being pointed to?

[freddymo]

Yes. There is no way this horse wasn't all out for that work. They are dressing up a mule. Why don't they get Dustin Hoffman to ride the horse instead of Contreras? Afterall isn't it publicity that they want? What else could explain this insane jump in class?

I could be wrong and this horse could be the real deal in what is a horrible graded race. I was wrong about the filly in the Battaglia...

I thought that filly raced incredibly well

[jcs11204]

the gotham appears to have come up a very very good race, very strong.

[SniperSB23]

the gotham appears to have come up a very very good race, very strong.

I think it at max will produce one Derby starter and quite possibly none.

[jcs11204]

i think 2 ... giant moon and roman emperor.
and saratoga russell is possible, if they find a prep that he can steal. he is obviously very fast, i would never play him, but i am sure they want to get him there.

[Dunbar]

Yes. There is no way this horse wasn't all out for that work. They are dressing up a mule. Why don't they get Dustin Hoffman to ride the horse instead of Contreras? Afterall isn't it publicity that they want? What else could explain this insane jump in class?

I could be wrong and this horse could be the real deal in what is a horrible graded race. I was wrong about the filly in the Battaglia...

I'm honestly impressed you brought up your wrong call on the filly. It's rare (and refreshing) to see someone revisit an opinion that makes him/her look less than brilliant.

--Dunbar

[SniperSB23]

i think 2 ... giant moon and roman emperor.
and saratoga russell is possible, if they find a prep that he can steal. he is obviously very fast, i would never play him, but i am sure they want to get him there.

All of those horses would drown against War Pass in the Wood. The only reason I could see one horse making the Derby is the likelihood that someone from this field would go to the Illinois Derby to duck War Pass and pick up some cheap earnings.

[blackthroatedwind]

The Gotham is an interesting race, and perhaps a very good betting race, especially if Giant Moon is even close to the favorite, but as of now nobody in there has done anything to distinguish themselves. A lot of perfect trip winners from what I can see.

I just hope it's an even/fair track.

[blackthroatedwind]

No Barrier Reef? Anyone know what race he is being pointed to?


He's in Florida. After his win in the Whirlaway he was switched to Godolphin.

Apparently the Sheik was upset that Bernardini didn't carry the Godolphin colors so now anyone with any promise gets switched to Godolphin.

Just be glad he didn't go to Dubai.

[jcs11204]

The Gotham is an interesting race, and perhaps a very good betting race, especially if Giant Moon is even close to the favorite, but as of now nobody in there has done anything to distinguish themselves. A lot of perfect trip winners from what I can see.

I just hope it's an even/fair track.

i cant see giant moon being favorite vs this group.
pletcher will be bet
roman emperor will be bet.
saratoga russell.
i can see giant moon around 4-1

[blackthroatedwind]

i cant see giant moon being favorite vs this group.
pletcher will be bet
roman emperor will be bet.
saratoga russell.
i can see giant moon around 4-1


Really? Pletcher's horse Holidaze will be bet?

He will take next to no money. He's about the longest shot on the list.

[jcs11204]

Southern Terminus

is that pletcher ? i thought it was, i could be wrong. i thought i bet him first time out at belmont.

[blackthroatedwind]

You might be right. I can't place him. Anyone know where that horse has run recently?

[jcs11204]

i think it is, he broke his maiden first out at belmont, then was beat by zitos Fierce Wind, who then came back to win at tampa bay

[jcs11204]

i am pretty sure 2 races, not belmont i am sorry


aqueduct maiden, and then 1 1/8 allowance at gulfstream

[Antitrust32]

I say a Three Drunks Behindatthebar exacta.

oh wow am i funny

[blackthroatedwind]

i think it is, he broke his maiden first out at belmont, then was beat by zitos Fierce Wind, who then came back to win at tampa bay

That horse. Another horse being rushed with no foundation. Good luck to him with all the apparent speed in the race.

[blackthroatedwind]

i am pretty sure 2 races, not belmont i am sorry


aqueduct maiden, and then 1 1/8 allowance at gulfstream


Yeah, you're right. He broke his maiden in, I think, the 2nd race on December 1st at Aqueduct, beating that bad Hennig horse, but getting a good number. He was then sent 1 1/8th at Gulfstream, broke a step slow, and got manhandled by Fierce Wind in what was essentially a two horse race.

[jcs11204]

Yeah, you're right. He broke his maiden in, I think, the 2nd race on December 1st at Aqueduct, beating that bad Hennig horse, but getting a good number. He was then sent 1 1/8th at Gulfstream, broke a step slow, and got manhandled by Fierce Wind in what was essentially a two horse race.
yes

[DerbyCat]

I say a Three Drunks Behindatthebar exacta.

oh wow am i funny


OK, if no one else will acknowledge this joke, I have to...

That's some funny shiat :D









I'm betting it :eek:

[Cajungator26]

I am all ready to burn some money on Master Daniel in the El Camino...

Master David, Master Daniel... oh what the hell, why not. My son's name is Daniel, so it just might work out. :rolleyes:

[Danzig]

I am all ready to burn some money on Master Daniel in the El Camino...

Master David, Master Daniel... oh what the hell, why not. My son's name is Daniel, so it just might work out. :rolleyes:

i saw him and immediately thought of master david. poor horse.

[Sightseek]

He's in Florida. After his win in the Whirlaway he was switched to Godolphin.

Apparently the Sheik was upset that Bernardini didn't carry the Godolphin colors so now anyone with any promise gets switched to Godolphin.

Just be glad he didn't go to Dubai.

Well at the very least...the silks are attractive, I don't know why they couldn't keep him in NY though. Thanks for the information.

[Sightseek]

With all the hating on Giant Moon...I'm really starting to like him. :D

[swedejxn]

visionaire
texas wildcatter
giant moon
eaton's gift
southern terminus

[asudevil]

Should be cranked up for this......

[blackthroatedwind]

I believe Giant Moon, the luckiest horse in racing, kept his streak of good fortune alive by drawing the rail in the Gotham.

Funny.

[Kasept]

9th (4:50) Gotham S. (G3)

1 1/16 Miles | Open | 3 Year Olds Stakes | Purse: $250,000

1 Giant Moon Dominguez R A 120 L
2 Laysh Laysh Laysh Pino M G 116 L
3 Roman Emperor Rose J 116 L
4 Saratoga Russell Coa E M 116 L
5 Southern Terminus Elliott S 116 L
6 Holidaze Luzzi M J 116 L
7 Texas Wildcatter Arroyo N Jr 116 Blk-On L
8 Larrys Revenge Bravo J 116 L
9 Ling Ling Qi Maragh R 116 L
10 Visionaire Lezcano J 116 L

[blackthroatedwind]

At a rough glance, given the post and field, Giant Moon may fool people even a little longer.

[Sightseek]

At a rough glance, given the post and field, Giant Moon may fool people even a little longer.

It can't be as bad as the trickery Cowtown Cat pulled.

[blackthroatedwind]

It can't be as bad as the trickery Cowtown Cat pulled.


No, Giant Moon actually has some ability.

[hoovesupsideyourhead]

what about the 8th the toboggn

sir greeley ?think santana throws a clunker

[kentuckyrosesinmay]

LA Derby
Yankee Bravo

Gotham Stakes
Visionaire

Have to go over the Gotham a bit more before I make a final decision.

[miraja2]

LA Derby
Yankee Bravo

Gotham Stakes
Visionaire

Have to go over the Gotham a bit more before I make a final decision.
I think you might want to over the LA Derby some more too if you somehow came up with Yankee Bravo. He seems VERY unlikely to me in this race.

[miraja2]

At a rough glance, given the post and field, Giant Moon may fool people even a little longer.
I wouldn't bet this race under any cirumstances, but he seems the most likely winner to me. There just aren't any good 2-turn horses in the race.

[blackthroatedwind]

I wouldn't bet this race under any cirumstances, but he seems the most likely winner to me. There just aren't any good 2-turn horses in the race.

Roman Emperor is sort of logical also.

It is not a compelling field.

[booner]

LA Derby

My Pal Charlie looks interesting. This will definately be his toughest test (by far), but he has won the last 2 around 2 turns and looks to be moving up the scale form-wise. 20/1 ML doens't hurt matters, either.

Can't play Yankee Bravo. First start on a traditional dirt surface against this field doesn't turn me on.

J Be K is intriging, but I'll stay away. The "1st time around 2 turns" angle ranks high in my book. If he beats me, then he beats me.

I really wish Tale Of Ekati and Majestic Warrior had one race before this one.

I'll box Pyro and My Pal Charlie in the exacta.

[miraja2]

Roman Emperor is sort of logical also.
Yeah, both of the horses that finished behind Barrier Reef in the Whirlaway (Roman Emperor and Texas Wildcatter) seem to be improving. Their BSFs have been steadily increasing, and I guess either of them could potentially take another step forward here and win this race, although I agree that Roman Emperor is the more likely of the two.
I guess there potentially could be some value in one of those two colts, but at the moment I am still leaning toward skipping this race.

[Bobby Fischer]

The risen star was a "HORRIBLE race", therefore i refuse to watch Visionaire and Unbridled Vicar and Blackberry Road in the stretch run.

I will instead take the public's and linesmaker's and chart trouble line's opinion... that Blackberry Road was oh so victimized by the trip and is a real derby contender, and that Unbrided Vicar is a washed up 20-1 shot with no kick who "needs to close", and that Visionaire "enjoyed" a dream trip along that "live" rail & is another with no late kick, not to mention he is no where near the calibre' of say a Spanky Fischerbein.

[Mike]

I'll test the Tomlinson wet track ratings in the Gotham with my selection of Ling Ling Qi

Fairgrounds turf is Yielding and I'll look back at those races

General Dan another longshot for me in the El Camino Real

[ArlJim78]

Am I the only one who thinks Giant Moon is off the board in this one?

mildly leaning towards Roman Emperor or Saratoga Russell.

[Cajungator26]

Am I the only one who thinks Giant Moon is off the board in this one?

mildly leaning towards Roman Emperor or Saratoga Russell.

I can see Roman Emperor winning this. Texas Wildcatter is interesting to me as well. He's been working lights out and looked to finish strong in his two previous starts at this distance.

My sentimental horse is Larry's Revenge. I hope he likes the slop. :eek:

[SniperSB23]

Am I the only one who thinks Giant Moon is off the board in this one?

mildly leaning towards Roman Emperor or Saratoga Russell.

I'm with you. I think the two you mentioned along with Texas Wildcatter and Ling Ling Qi should all be well ahead of him.

[miraja2]

Am I the only one who thinks Giant Moon is off the board in this one?

mildly leaning towards Roman Emperor or Saratoga Russell.
He certainly could be.
This is a classic,"who stinks less" race.

[King Glorious]

I like Saratoga Russell over Giant Moon. Box them.

I like J Be K to beat Pyro hopefully with Tale of Ekati and Majestic Warrior bringing up the rear. Actually, my dream scenario would have Pyro finishing last but there isn't enough in this field to make that happen.

[Mike]

Brilliant will be my Yielding track play in the Muniz

King Of The Roxy in the Kenner

Boxing Stylish Wildcat/IronLips in the Bienville

J Be K in the Derby

[miraja2]

I don't know what you guys like about Saratoga Russell here.
This kind of 2.5f stretchout from a horse with his sire and running style, from a barn with fairly poor sprint-to-route numbers, seems like a bad play to me.

But then again, this race is fairly wide open, so who knows.

[Bobby Fischer]

the big 3
saratoga russel has a slugger's chance to run away with it,-especially with an off track,
and Visionaire is a better animal than Moon, but you have to think that Dominguez will sit a nice forwardly placed trip with Giant Moon.
Moon can be beat here but should be somewhat competitive.

chinese scenarios
Maragh has an important horse in Ling li Qi or whatever... - Maragh has enough tactical speed to match strides early with moon if he so chooses (behind Saratoga Russel) and that could really make things tough on moon.

more BS
Although it is just as likely that Moon breaks running and forces Saratoga Russel to work very hard to clear, and Maragh rides tenatively on Ling Ling. Can Visionaire come and get him? Even on the off track?? How much is the wide post going to comprimise Lezcano???

love the madonna song
Pletcher has three horses here, and none of them look all that amazing, but any 1/3 could have a chance to compete for some purse $$. Holidaze is a pretty good animal, but is a headcase who is afraid to run inside of horses, and STILL doesn't get blinkers AND gets the Mike Luzzi who has the reputation of not being the best in overcoming a weakness. If Holidaze lucks into a good trip and an outside run, he could easily run 2nd or 3rd.


the lowdown
from a betting standpoint I want Moon or Russell to run away with it and get a fairly high beyer. I will beat them next time and just enjoy watching the race today.

[SniperSB23]

I don't know what you guys like about Saratoga Russell here.
This kind of 2.5f stretchout from a horse with his sire and running style, from a barn with fairly poor sprint-to-route numbers, seems like a bad play to me.

But then again, this race is fairly wide open, so who knows.

Mainly the off track and lack of quality horses here.

[King Glorious]

Mainly the off track and lack of quality horses here.

That's it for me. If there were any good horses in here, I would look against him but there aren't.

[kentuckyrosesinmay]

Yep...I've decided to stick with Visionaire if he goes off decent enough...

[kentuckyrosesinmay]

I've got to put at least a show bet on Holidaze at that price...sheesh. Let's see if it goes down any from that.

Visionaire looks like he is going to go off at a nice price...

Think I have to include both he and Saratoga Russell in an exacta.

Plus a win/place bet on Visionaire.

[The Indomitable DrugS]

What a bunch of dogs in the Gotham.

[kentuckyrosesinmay]

What a bunch of dogs in the Gotham.

The best horse won like he was supposed to...

[jwkniska]

What a bunch of dogs in the Gotham.

couldn't tell... too much fog to see anything

[Cajungator26]

couldn't tell... too much fog to see anything

Ditto... LOL

[Pedigree Ann]

Well, Visionaire certainly boosted Pyro's stock a bit with his Gotham win. Although on that track, and in those conditions, I don't see it as a definite test.

[Coach Pants]

Texas Wildcatter was much the best but the pinhead on his back moved him early and wide around the turn and used him up.

[Pedigree Ann]

[QUOTE=kentuckyrosesinmay]
Visionaire looks like he is going to go off at a nice price...

Think I have to include both he and Saratoga Russell in an exacta.[QUOTE]

...'include both Saratoga Russell and HIM' - a direct object, not the subject. Sheesh, you guys sleep through English class? Anyway, I don't see what was the attraction of Saratoga Russell in the first place - a horse wins a maiden and a state-bred n1x, both at 6f, and he's the favorite in a 2-turn open stakes race? Bizarre.

[kentuckyrosesinmay]

[QUOTE=kentuckyrosesinmay]
Visionaire looks like he is going to go off at a nice price...

Think I have to include both he and Saratoga Russell in an exacta.[QUOTE]

...'include both Saratoga Russell and HIM' - a direct object, not the subject. Sheesh, you guys sleep through English class? Anyway, I don't see what was the attraction of Saratoga Russell in the first place - a horse wins a maiden and a state-bred n1x, both at 6f, and he's the favorite in a 2-turn open stakes race? Bizarre.

I give out the winner of the race, and this is what I get...go figure...

Saratoga Russell was intriguing because he had won on a similar surface before. I think many other DTers bet him besides me. I just used him in an exacta.

[Cajungator26]

Texas Wildcatter was much the best but the pinhead on his back moved him early and wide around the turn and used him up.

I know, don't get me started. :mad:

[Coach Pants]

I know, don't get me started. :mad:
I had a $5 pick 4 going to 5 horses in the last. I feel numb.

[kentuckyrosesinmay]

Did anyone else watch Visionaire be taken totally out of his game, and come out of the clouds to get up...literally?

[Coach Pants]

Did anyone else watch Visionaire be taken totally out of his game, and come out of the clouds to get up?
He didn't come out of the clouds. He caught a horse that was done due to a premature move.

[Cajungator26]

I had a $5 pick 4 going to 5 horses in the last. I feel numb.

That sucks, man. All I had was a $5 exacta with him and Roman Emperor. Still stinks when I see that kind of shiat, though.

[miraja2]

I don't see what was the attraction of Saratoga Russell in the first place - a horse wins a maiden and a state-bred n1x, both at 6f, and he's the favorite in a 2-turn open stakes race? Bizarre.
Tell me about it. He was one of the most absurdly bet horses in a graded stakes race I have seen in awhile. What did he go off at, 7/5?
I really don't know what people were looking at to bet him at those odds.

[Bobby Fischer]

as of now a Pyro= Unbridlded Vicar exacta is paying 97.60 (18min to post)

UV is 45-1

am i drunk (dont answer)

wtf are you guys watching on your replays?

[Bobby Fischer]

pyro and Vicar are the ony two horses in the race.

I know geir lanerie isn't a team you invest in, but Tafel did.

I know the race where he forced Denis of Cork to work was misread as a flat effort from cork , and the Risen star was either dismissed or taken literally on a Beyer scale, but come on. The public or bobby fischer shouldn't be that far off

[kentuckyrosesinmay]

He didn't come out of the clouds. He caught a horse that was done due to a premature move.

Well, Visionaire was last throughout most of the race...

He's usually stays in the middle of the pack...not in last place.

Visionaire was moving before Texas Wildcatter, and he still caught him on his wrong lead. Visionaire would beat this group every time, especially if he got a little bit more favorable trip.

I mean, Visionaire was the best horse going into this race anyway, so he did what he should of done even in unfavorable circumstances.

[MaTH716]

Shaun likes to keep it interesting, Jeeez!

[Bobby Fischer]

pyro gets him but UV isn't even a factor

i was wrong

[Coach Pants]

Well, Visionaire was last throughout most of the race...

He's usually stays in the middle of the pack...not in last place.

Visionaire was moving before Texas Wildcatter, and he still caught him on his wrong lead. Visionaire would beat this group every time, especially if he got a little bit more favorable trip.

I mean, Visionaire was the best horse going into this race anyway, so he did what he should of done even in unfavorable circumstances.

That's like me saying Statesman would beat the same group from last Sunday every time because he was far back.

You won by a nose and were extremely lucky in doing so.

[kentuckyrosesinmay]

LA Derby

My Pal Charlie looks interesting. This will definately be his toughest test (by far), but he has won the last 2 around 2 turns and looks to be moving up the scale form-wise. 20/1 ML doens't hurt matters, either.

Can't play Yankee Bravo. First start on a traditional dirt surface against this field doesn't turn me on.

J Be K is intriging, but I'll stay away. The "1st time around 2 turns" angle ranks high in my book. If he beats me, then he beats me.

I really wish Tale Of Ekati and Majestic Warrior had one race before this one.

I'll box Pyro and My Pal Charlie in the exacta.

Good call.

[kentuckyrosesinmay]

That's like me saying Statesman would beat the same group from last Sunday every time because he was far back.

You won by a nose and were extremely lucky in doing so.

So, are you saying that Visionaire wasn't the best horse in the field?

[Coach Pants]

So, are you saying that Visionaire wasn't the best horse in the field?
I don't give a crap about best horse. The race was given to Texas Wildcatter on a platter and Arroyo blew it by moving him 3 wide around the turn.

The track conditions, early pace, everything setup for this horse and he got caught by the logical closer in the race.

Oh and Visionaire was last because he's a slow horse and the fractions were real fast. This horse ran the race of his life.

[Danzig]

surprised visionaire got up at the end, couldn't really tell much of anything on hrtv....about half of the race was like looking into a cloudy sky.
but glad V got up, as he is in my RTTR stable.

but with the conditions at AQU today, i don't know that you can really get anything from the performances, other than visionaire and texas wildcat can handle slop.

[blackthroatedwind]

Visionaire benefited from a terrific ride and the second horse, who was obviously best, got a boneheaded ride. Pretty much anytime you see every horse near the lead collapse, but one, and a horse win from far back, the one speed who stuck it out ran a better race. That's pretty much common sense.

It's hard to glean anything from the race because of the atrocious track conditions. Obviously Saratoga Russell is distance challenged, but that seemed likely going in, and Giant Moon clearly didn't handle the track at all, but other than that it was probably a pretty mediocre bunch and two horses ran OK. The first two finishers will both need to be better dry track horses to do anything of meaning going forward.

[kentuckyrosesinmay]

Visionaire ran the race of his life?...he has always ran similar or better races than this. I don't think that this was his best race. Sure, it might be his highest beyer, but it won't be his best race. You don't run your best races on the wrong lead when the horse is normally correct down the stretch. His Risen Star has been his best race so far IMO. You're talking about a horse that beat Elysium fields last year. Elysium Fields is no joke, and neither is this little horse. Horses like him are very useful in races like these because they don't get bet nearly as much as they should just because of beyers. He was much better than these horses going in, and he proved it. He was even on his wrong lead coming down the stretch and still got up.

Him being a "slow horse" really doesn't make since when you take his last race into account when he was close to the pace, albeit a much slower pace.
He was taken out of his game in that race too, and still finished only 2 lengths behind Pyro.

Why play a horse with tactical speed in a race full of speed against a closer that is much better than these in the first place? It wasn't as if Visionaire didn't go off at a nice price, and normally Visionaire isn't quite so far back as he was today.

I also don't think that Visionaire runs as good in the slop as he does on the dirt. It didn't look like he was running as hard in this race as in the Risen Star towards the end when I could actually see him. Still going to have to improve a bit before he makes it into the top tier of 3 yolds as well.

[Coach Pants]

Visionaire ran the race of his life?...he has always ran similar or better races than this. I don't think that this was his best race. Sure, it might be his highest beyer, but it won't be his best race. You don't run your best races on the wrong lead when the horse is normally correct down the stretch. His Risen Star has been his best race so far IMO. You're talking about a horse that beat Elysium fields last year. Elysium Fields is no joke, and neither is this little horse. Horses like him are very useful in races like these because they don't get bet nearly as much as they should just because of beyers. He was much better than these horses going in, and he proved it. He was even on his wrong lead coming down the stretch and still got up.

Him being a "slow horse" really doesn't make since when you take his last race into account when he was close to the pace, albeit a much slower pace.
He was taken out of his game in that race too, and still finished only 2 lengths behind Pyro.

Why play a horse with tactical speed in a race full of speed against a closer that is much better than these in the first place? It wasn't as if Visionaire didn't go off at a nice price, and normally Visionaire isn't quite so far back as he was today.
Fine. He's an unbelievable horse. Now shut up.

[kentuckyrosesinmay]

Fine. He's an unbelievable horse. Now shut up.

He's not unbelievable, but he's better than most of the 3 y olds out there. Going to have to improve some before he is in the top tier.

[Coach Pants]

Yes. There is no way this horse wasn't all out for that work. They are dressing up a mule. Why don't they get Dustin Hoffman to ride the horse instead of Contreras? Afterall isn't it publicity that they want? What else could explain this insane jump in class?

I could be wrong and this horse could be the real deal in what is a horrible graded race. I was wrong about the filly in the Battaglia...
LOL. There is no god.

[Danzig]

LOL. There is no god.

don't tell me autism awareness won

[Coach Pants]

don't tell me autism awareness won
Haha it's the weakest crop of 3 year olds in the history of racing. I'm glad the race wasn't like a $300,000 purse. I don't want this sob story at Churchill.

[TitanSooner]

LOL. There is no god.
I would be thinking just the opposite

[Danzig]

Haha it's the weakest crop of 3 year olds in the history of racing. I'm glad the race wasn't like a $300,000 purse. I don't want this sob story at Churchill.

hehe...funny you say that...there's a thread about him already, and i wrote about that as well...

[golfer]

Visionaire benefited from a terrific ride and the second horse, who was obviously best, got a boneheaded ride. Pretty much anytime you see every horse near the lead collapse, but one, and a horse win from far back, the one speed who stuck it out ran a better race. That's pretty much common sense.

It's hard to glean anything from the race because of the atrocious track conditions. Obviously Saratoga Russell is distance challenged, but that seemed likely going in, and Giant Moon clearly didn't handle the track at all, but other than that it was probably a pretty mediocre bunch and two horses ran OK. The first two finishers will both need to be better dry track horses to do anything of meaning going forward.
Funny story at the simulcast center. A couple of kids sit down at the table next to mine, as the Gotham comes up one says to me to bet the 10 horse, Visionaire, because he got a tip from his brother who is part owner. Well, the race starts, and Visionaire breaks last, then they disappear into the fog. The kid is furious, he calls his brother, and says something to the effect of, if you ever have another horse running, DON'T tell me about it, this horse is friggin dead last!!! Anyway, as you all know, they reappear down the stretch, he can't believe that it is the 10 horse closing....The kid is absolutely thrilled, he had a $10 win bet on the horse. Lesson learned, don't make phone calls during the race!

[Arcangues to Win]

Steve Byk,

"Sizing Europe" seems to deserve his favoritisim at 5/2 but I will take
"Catch Me" at 11/1. Thanks for mentioning the Cheltenham festival. Now that Gulfstream has been ruined jump races might be a much better way to spend winter racing. Thanks as well for the rave on politician’s and their hipocracy.

“Let the people have the truth and the freedom to discuss it and all will go well.” William T. Evjue

Tuesday
Cheltenham 3:15 17 runners
Smurfit Kappa Champion Hurdle Challenge Trophy (grade 1) Prize Money £360000

Silk Form Horse Age Wt Trainer Jockey

1 33-2541 Afsoun (FR) 6 11,10 N J Henderson M A Fitzgerald

2 1321-62 Blythe Knight (IRE) 8 11,10 J J Quinn D C Costello

3 1411-57 Bobs Pride (IRE) 6 11,10 D K Weld Denis O'regan

4 U3F-141 Catch Me (GER) 6 11,10 E J O'Grady R Walsh

5 2P0459- Contraband 10 11,10 Paul Murphy T J Dreaper

6 453415 Ebaziyan (IRE) 7 11,10 W P Mullins D J Condon

7 111225 Farmer Brown (IRE) 7 11,10 P Hughes D N Russell

8 2/455-12 Harchibald (FR) 9 11,10 N Meade P Carberry

9 17462-7 Kalderon (GER) 8 11,10 T Hogan D J Casey

10 11-1321 Katchit (IRE) 5 11,10 A King R Thornton

11 2F5629 Kawagino (IRE) 8 11,10 J W Mullins W P Kavanagh

12 4102-21 Osana (FR) 6 11,10 D Pipe T Scudamore

13 1421-42 Punjabi 5 11,10 N J Henderson B J Geraghty

14 213163 Salford City (IRE) 7 11,10 G Elliott Miss N Carberry

15 351-F11 Sizing Europe (IRE) 6 11,10 H De Bromhead A J Mcnamara

16 21P-612 Straw Bear (USA) 7 11,10 N J Gifford A P McCoy

17 444/11-4 Sublimity (FR) 8 11,10 J G Carr P A Carberry