Why all the hate for the 3 yr olds???

[wac]

People on here know a lot more about racing then i so i'll ask why is there so much hate for the 3yr old crop this year? Outside of War Pass and Pyro it seems like most on here think every other horse sux. I think we were spoiled last year with SS, Hard Spun, Curlin etc but i "think" its a little early to say that all of these horses suck and aren't competitive. Is it b/c the beyers are low? The races they have had were crappy? B/c War Pass ran off and hid from everyone last year and made so many of them look foolish?I just think its early to say this horse sucks that horse sucks, maybe we haven't seen the best out of a lot of these horses. I just think that there are some horses that are going to improve with some races under there belt. I guess we will see.

[King Glorious]

People on here no a lot more about racing then i so i'll ask why is there so much hate for the 3yr old crop this year? Outside of War Pass and Pyro it seems like most on here think every other horse sux. I think we were spoiled last year with SS, Hard Spun, Curlin etc but i "think" its a little early to say that all of these horses suck and aren't competitive. Is it b/c the beyers are low? The races they have had were crappy? B/c War Pass ran off and hid from everyone last year and made so many of them look foolish?I just think its early to say this horse sucks that horse sucks, maybe we haven't seen the best out of a lot of these horses. I just think that there are some horses that are going to improve with some races under there belt. I guess we will see.

I don't like them because they do suck. I wasn't spoiled by last year either. I thought they sucked last year too. Curlin was great. Hard Spun, and Street Sense were good.....but not nearly as good as people made them out to be. They seemed better because the older horses were as pathetic a group as ever seen in that division.

This year's group is looking below par. That's not to say that they can't be competitive. But you can find a $5k claimer at Yavapai that's competitive. Don't confuse exciting racing with good racing. This is also not to say that some can't emerge and turn into something really good. But at this point, it's not looking too promising.

[miraja2]

I don't like them because they do suck. I wasn't spoiled by last year either. I thought they sucked last year too. Curlin was great. Hard Spun, and Street Sense were good.....but not nearly as good as people made them out to be. They seemed better because the older horses were as pathetic a group as ever seen in that division.

This year's group is looking below par. That's not to say that they can't be competitive. But you can find a $5k claimer at Yavapai that's competitive. Don't confuse exciting racing with good racing. This is also not to say that some can't emerge and turn into something really good. But at this point, it's not looking too promising.
KG....I agree with everything you said here.
I'm serious.

[fpsoxfan]

People on here know a lot more about racing then i so i'll ask why is there so much hate for the 3yr old crop this year? Outside of War Pass and Pyro it seems like most on here think every other horse sux. I think we were spoiled last year with SS, Hard Spun, Curlin etc but i "think" its a little early to say that all of these horses suck and aren't competitive. Is it b/c the beyers are low? The races they have had were crappy? B/c War Pass ran off and hid from everyone last year and made so many of them look foolish?I just think its early to say this horse sucks that horse sucks, maybe we haven't seen the best out of a lot of these horses. I just think that there are some horses that are going to improve with some races under there belt. I guess we will see.

Good Question. I'm an optimist. I'm holding out hope that a real super horse comes out of the bunch. Of course, I've been hoping for that to happen for the past several years. With less than 1/3 of the Derby Prep races run, it is a bit premature to say that this crop sucks.

[Bigsmc]

People on here know a lot more about racing then i so i'll ask why is there so much hate for the 3yr old crop this year? Outside of War Pass and Pyro it seems like most on here think every other horse sux. I think we were spoiled last year with SS, Hard Spun, Curlin etc but i "think" its a little early to say that all of these horses suck and aren't competitive. Is it b/c the beyers are low? The races they have had were crappy? B/c War Pass ran off and hid from everyone last year and made so many of them look foolish?I just think its early to say this horse sucks that horse sucks, maybe we haven't seen the best out of a lot of these horses. I just think that there are some horses that are going to improve with some races under there belt. I guess we will see.

This year is no different than any other year. Dig up last year's TC threads and you'll read virtually the same stuff you've been reading this year.

[Travis Stone]

Horseplayers are a funny breed. They're never happy. If we could go back in time, I'm sure folks would find holes to poke into Affirmed/Alydar. Sometimes it seems as thought 10+ years need to be pass before people really appreciate horses.

Disclaimer: This post does not at all reference this year's crop as the next Affirmed/Alydar!

[Cajungator26]

This crop stinks...

Hardly any of them have even run back to their best 2 year old numbers. They don't seem to be improving as 3 year olds which is what you want to see.

[justindew]

It's not just this crop of three-year-olds. It's the entire breed. There are no good horses.

(I'm being 85% serious)

[pgardn]

People on here know a lot more about racing then i so i'll ask why is there so much hate for the 3yr old crop this year?

Because its easy.

It is much harder to choose
a horse you like and then express
this and be wrong. Being wrong
on this site is dangerous.

Its much easier to say how bad a horse
looks. And in fairness, we have a whole
lot of lightly raced 3 yo's with the added
confusion that some are running on syn.
so this year is tougher.

[King Glorious]

The Fountain of Youth makes me think even less of this group now than I did when I woke up this morning.

[Danzig]

only february king...give em time...

cause it looks like they need lots of it!!!:D

no, seriously....it is still too early to tell.

[King Glorious]

Maybe you need more time. I don't. Slow is slow.

[blackthroatedwind]

Maybe you need more time. I don't. Slow is slow.


The time doesn't add up. The first two finishers are nice horses and even the third horse ran OK. They aren't world beaters at this point but it's still pretty early.

Cool Coal Man is certainly a good second fiddle to War Pass.

[The Bid]

3 year old score board

Nick Zito 2
The Rest of America 0

This after 4 innings

[fpsoxfan]

The Fountain of Youth makes me think even less of this group now than I did when I woke up this morning.

Are you saying this because the horses you are picking are not running up to your expectations? Or are you just unhappy with the entire crop?

The last I knew, the Derby is still being run on May 3. There is a lot of time between now and then. Out of the 21 years I've been following this sport, I've heard these same complaints in probably 7 out of the last 10 years. People neeed to freaking relax and let the events unfold as they may. Maybe it will turn out to be a lously crop, maybe it won't, but either way it will still be a lot of fun on May 3rd.

[Hickory Hill Hoff]

Are you saying this because the horses you are picking are not running up to your expectations? Or are you just unhappy with the entire crop?

The last I knew, the Derby is still being run on May 3. There is a lot of time between now and then. Out of the 21 years I've been following this sport, I've heard these same complaints in probably 7 out of the last 10 years. People neeed to freaking relax and let the events unfold as they may. Maybe it will turn out to be a lously crop, maybe it won't, but either way it will still be a lot of fun on May 3rd.


I think everybody is comparing this year to last, last year was the best in twenty years. War Pass had little more than a public workout today, would have been nice if he ran in the FOY. Lot's of races until the first Saturday in May. Bottom line.....are we cashing tickets in these preps. Not today for myself.

[pick4]

Are you saying this because the horses you are picking are not running up to your expectations? Or are you just unhappy with the entire crop?

The last I knew, the Derby is still being run on May 3. There is a lot of time between now and then. Out of the 21 years I've been following this sport, I've heard these same complaints in probably 7 out of the last 10 years. People neeed to freaking relax and let the events unfold as they may. Maybe it will turn out to be a lously crop, maybe it won't, but either way it will still be a lot of fun on May 3rd.

It's the same thing every single year for the past 8 years. They all stink until the Kentucky Derby and then you have a few that emerge from the Derby to run well in the next two legs of the TC. Most of the Derby Trail contenders who fail to make the mix are never heard from again. The survivors might run a few times in the fall and then are rushed off to the farm to cover mares.

[pick4]

I think everybody is comparing this year to last, last year was the best in twenty years. War Pass had little more than a public workout today, would have been nice if he ran in the FOY. Lot's of races until the first Saturday in May. Bottom line.....are we cashing tickets in these preps. Not today for myself.

Comparing this year to last year is a huge trap. I know it happens all the time but as it's a bad way of looking at these races. When looking at the movies who are candidates for the Oscars do they compare against prior years or do they judge each movie with the candidates in the select few.

You're absolutely right about War Pass and even though he might have distance limitation questions to answer, those will be answered in the next ten weeks. In my opinion making rash judgements off of one prep race especially ten weeks from Derby Day is not wise.

[hoovesupsideyourhead]

lets face it.. war pass though not tested with 18 horses is just much better than most..now that bieng said..there is alot to be done and to be seen in this years crop ..he could be injured or just tail off abit have a bad trip ect. the reality to me is that the tc is just about a perfect recipe for an unatainable goal..pyro is a good horse and there is new ones getting tuned up for that day,,the derby,, the one real goal of every trainer.. the tc is just an afterthought..the crop as a whole cant really be judged as bad or good . a few standouts to this point..but damn its early.. giacamo.. nuff said..

[wac]

I hope some of you are right and that things will get better as we get further along. It is true that there is a long way till KD134 and derby day will still be fun Lord willing. I hope that the rest of the preps are a little more satisfying.
For those of you that backed "man" congrats and good pick.

[ELA]

Does this year's crop look "weak" so to speak? Relatively speaking, yeah, I would kind of agree with that. I think the "weakness" is exacerbated by a variety of things, but I also think it's still a bit early.

Between now and the next wave of preps -- a colt, on or off the radar, could turn the corner and step up. They all mature differently and nobody is going to get their colt to peak sooner than the Derby (at least not on purpose).

Once again, Zito is looking strong. There is a lot of depth in that barn. He certainly knows how to get horses to the big dance and he does it with a lot less firepower than most of the other big names (Pletcher, Baffert, etc.).

Anyway, I guess we will soon see how weak this crop really is.

Eric

[JJP]

I'm going to hold off on ripping the FOY because I'm suspicious of the teletimer at GP. That 25 and change opening Q looks very suspicious.

[fpsoxfan]

lets face it.. war pass though not tested with 18 horses is just much better than most..now that bieng said..there is alot to be done and to be seen in this years crop ..he could be injured or just tail off abit have a bad trip ect. the reality to me is that the tc is just about a perfect recipe for an unatainable goal..pyro is a good horse and there is new ones getting tuned up for that day,,the derby,, the one real goal of every trainer.. the tc is just an afterthought..the crop as a whole cant really be judged as bad or good . a few standouts to this point..but damn its early.. giacamo.. nuff said..

Very well said Hooves. These are very young animals who are growing and maturing every day. I just went through each derby starting in 1988 and it's amazing to see the different trends. There were years where the derby hype did not live up to how the derby was run (Ex. 1992 - Arazi) and vica-versca (War Emblem - 2002 Overlooked and nearly goes on the win the Triple Crown) During that time span we had a less than full starting gate(Ex. 1997
Silver Charm - 13 starters) Now granted, the number of starters does not determine how good or bad a year is. In general, I think I've seen leaner years than this. Let's just sit back and enjoy the remaining prep races and see what happens.

[Hickory Hill Hoff]

Very well said Hooves. These are very young animals who are growing and maturing every day. I just went through each derby starting in 1988 and it's amazing to see the different trends. There were years where the derby hype did not live up to how the derby was run (Ex. 1992 - Arazi) and vica-versca (War Emblem - 2002 Overlooked and nearly goes on the win the Triple Crown) During that time span we had a less than full starting gate(Ex. 1997
Silver Charm - 13 starters) Now granted, the number of starters does not determine how good or bad a year is. In general, I think I've seen leaner years than this. Let's just sit back and enjoy the remaining prep races and see what happens.

Rough going back to work today with a week off and all that :D

[King Glorious]

Are you saying this because the horses you are picking are not running up to your expectations? Or are you just unhappy with the entire crop?

The last I knew, the Derby is still being run on May 3. There is a lot of time between now and then. Out of the 21 years I've been following this sport, I've heard these same complaints in probably 7 out of the last 10 years. People neeed to freaking relax and let the events unfold as they may. Maybe it will turn out to be a lously crop, maybe it won't, but either way it will still be a lot of fun on May 3rd.

Exactly the opposite. The ones I picked have run to my expectations. I said after the BC that War Pass was light years ahead of this group and I didn't see anything yesterday to change my mind. After watching him win in Northern California, I was on the El Gato Malo wagon and he came down south and crushed. Indian Blessing is 2-2 this year. The rest of the 3yo's, I've felt like they were bad and other than Pyro showing me a little more than I expected, they've all run bad.

I also thought last year's group was weak after you go past Curlin. I think people make the mistake of seeing consistent averageness (so what if that's not a word) and thinking it's better than it actually is. Hard Spun was a nice horse, no doubt. But if you look back over the past 20 years, he probably wouldn't rank in the top 50 3yo's. Street Sense might make the top 20. Maybe. Any Given Saturday wouldn't crack the top 50 either. Tiago and Grasshopper wouldn't crack the top 100. Don't mistake competitive racing with good racing. The upcoming SA Hcp could turn out to be the most competitive race in history. All 14 come finish within two lengths of each other and there could be a triple dead-heat for the win. But that doesn't mean that the quality of the horses running is in line with what the past history of that race has produced. There is a difference.

[JJP]

How can one put Curlin decidedly ahead of Street Sense? Street Sense beat him fair and square in the Derby and Curlin beat him by about 1 inch in the Preakness. So Curlin whipped him in the Breeder's Cup over the Monmouth ocean. I don't think one can draw too many conclusions about that race other than Curlin likes slop much better than Street Sense, who didn't seem to like slop when he ran in the Arl-Wash Futurity.

[sdjcom]

Difference in opinion makes horseracing fun to talk about, however i'm
more sucessful in average races, and bet modest on the 3 yr old derby
trail races.

[blackthroatedwind]

It's nice to know that you are more successful in average races.


I'm average in successful races.

[kgar311]

I really dont understand some of these posts??? Ive read through alot and all I see is people saying the crop sucks. In february? I bet there are some horses out there (at least 5 or 6 ) that havent even run a race yet that will make it to the derby. Few years ago I had no idea who Barbaro was until he won the derby. Then there was Bernardini after that. Theres always a huge scramble to get the graded money under these horses belts early to get to the Derby, most horses arent ready. Then the big guns start to emerge. With Pyro and War Pass heading the trail I see an exciting campaign to the derby this year.

[blackthroatedwind]

I really dont understand some of these posts??? Ive read through alot and all I see is people saying the crop sucks. In february? I bet there are some horses out there (at least 5 or 6 ) that havent even run a race yet that will make it to the derby. Few years ago I had no idea who Barbaro was until he won the derby. Then there was Bernardini after that. Theres always a huge scramble to get the graded money under these horses belts early to get to the Derby, most horses arent ready. Then the big guns start to emerge. With Pyro and War Pass heading the trail I see an exciting campaign to the derby this year.


While I find the supposed disgust of some people an exageration, other than the very exciting War Pass, there have not been any particularly fast races from this crop, and while there is certainly plenty of time and room for improvement, right now there doesn't appear to be an enormous amount of high end talent out there. And, if you hadn't heard of Barbaro until he won the Derby, I think it's fair to say that those offering opinions here are following things a LOT closer than you.....whether one agrees with them or not.

[King Glorious]

I really dont understand some of these posts??? Ive read through alot and all I see is people saying the crop sucks. In february? I bet there are some horses out there (at least 5 or 6 ) that havent even run a race yet that will make it to the derby. Few years ago I had no idea who Barbaro was until he won the derby. Then there was Bernardini after that. Theres always a huge scramble to get the graded money under these horses belts early to get to the Derby, most horses arent ready. Then the big guns start to emerge. With Pyro and War Pass heading the trail I see an exciting campaign to the derby this year.

Wait till you hear about Curlin.

[kgar311]

While I find the supposed disgust of some people an exageration, other than the very exciting War Pass, there have not been any particularly fast races from this crop, and while there is certainly plenty of time and room for improvement, right now there doesn't appear to be an enormous amount of high end talent out there. And, if you hadn't heard of Barbaro until he won the Derby, I think it's fair to say that those offering opinions here are following things a LOT closer than you.....whether one agrees with them or not.

Of course ive heard of Barbaro before the race but not in the context of "super Horse" as everyone decided to put him in after the derby. Also its not far fetched to think that there is a couple of horses out there in the next few weeks that will break their maidens and go on to a couple stakes races and earn enough graded stkes money to get in.

[NoLuvForPletch]

How can one put Curlin decidedly ahead of Street Sense? Street Sense beat him fair and square in the Derby and Curlin beat him by about 1 inch in the Preakness. So Curlin whipped him in the Breeder's Cup over the Monmouth ocean. I don't think one can draw too many conclusions about that race other than Curlin likes slop much better than Street Sense, who didn't seem to like slop when he ran in the Arl-Wash Futurity.

Curlin is waaaay ahead of Street Sense. If you are a Street Sense guy, you should be concerned if Hard Spun is ahead of Steet Sense too.

Hard Spun only very slightly less impressive than Street Sense in the Derby.
Hard Spun not as impressive as Street Sense in the Preakness, thanks Mario.
Hard Spun's 4th in the Belmont more impressive than Street Sense watching, thanks Go-Go.
Hard Spun's 2nd in the Haskell, after carving out 110 3/5 off of a 2 month layoff, beating Curlin in the process, more impressive than Street Sense beating CP West in the Jim Dandy.
Hard Spun and Steet Sense both impressive on Travers Day in their own respect.
Hard Spun only very slightly more impressive than Steet Sense in the Kentucky Cup Classic.
Hard Spun more impressive on Breeders Cup Day.

While I am an admitted Hard Spun fan, I find his 3YO road to be every bit as accomplished as Street Sense.

[blackthroatedwind]

Of course ive heard of Barbaro before the race but not in the context of "super Horse" as everyone decided to put him in after the derby. Also its not far fetched to think that there is a couple of horses out there in the next few weeks that will break their maidens and go on to a couple stakes races and earn enough graded stkes money to get in.


Actually, that is beyond far fetched. It's borderline ludicrous.

[Indian Charlie]

Wait till you hear about Curlin.

is that that dubai horse?

[King Glorious]

is that that dubai horse?

You'll find out about him later. Just remember you heard it here first.

[hoovesupsideyourhead]

You'll find out about him later. Just remember you heard it here first.
we will

[JJP]

Curlin is waaaay ahead of Street Sense. If you are a Street Sense guy, you should be concerned if Hard Spun is ahead of Steet Sense too.

Hard Spun only very slightly less impressive than Street Sense in the Derby.
Hard Spun not as impressive as Street Sense in the Preakness, thanks Mario.
Hard Spun's 4th in the Belmont more impressive than Street Sense watching, thanks Go-Go.
Hard Spun's 2nd in the Haskell, after carving out 110 3/5 off of a 2 month layoff, beating Curlin in the process, more impressive than Street Sense beating CP West in the Jim Dandy.
Hard Spun and Steet Sense both impressive on Travers Day in their own respect.
Hard Spun only very slightly more impressive than Steet Sense in the Kentucky Cup Classic.
Hard Spun more impressive on Breeders Cup Day.

While I am an admitted Hard Spun fan, I find his 3YO road to be every bit as accomplished as Street Sense.

I'm not sure where to start, but you are way off.

I disagree Hard Spun's 2nd in the Haskell is more impressive than Street Sense's Jim Dandy win. Hard Spun was running over a speed favoring Monmouth surface and Any Given Saturday buried him while Street Sense had to overcome a lone speed/slow pace in both his Saratoga races to win. And IMO, Street Sense was more impressive in the KY Cup, given that Hard Spun had the race handed to him on a silver platter as total lone speed, and he still was all out to win. The sea of slop on BC day made much of those results irrelevant.

[NoLuvForPletch]

I'm not sure where to start, but you are way off.

I disagree Hard Spun's 2nd in the Haskell is more impressive than Street Sense's Jim Dandy win. Hard Spun was running over a speed favoring Monmouth surface and Any Given Saturday buried him while Street Sense had to overcome a lone speed/slow pace in both his Saratoga races to win. And IMO, Street Sense was more impressive in the KY Cup, given that Hard Spun had the race handed to him on a silver platter as total lone speed, and he still was all out to win. The sea of slop on BC day made much of those results irrelevant.

Any Given Saturday was coming off of a good prep in the Dwyer, while Hard Spun was coming back from his 2 month hiatus after running in ALL 3 TC events, and sat in a perfect spot as Hard Spun and Cable Boy went at it. Any Given Saturday couldn't hold Hard Spun's jock.

Your recollection of the Jim Dandy is strange as CP West went at it with something called Flashstorm through fractions of 23 2/5 and 47. I'd hardly call that lone speed/slow pace. Street Sense beat CP West by 2 hard fought lengths.

Please watch the Kentucky Cup again and tell me what you see because I see them both being asked, but neither ALL OUT. I think Street Sense would have a tough time beating Hard Spun in a match race, he could never keep up.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1pflXyCer9o

I just do not feel there is a big difference between the 2 that one should be in the top 25 (the rail skimming everyone out of my way winner of the Kentucky Derby) and the carve out the fractions, gut it out horse that was raced at distances that didn't give him the optimum chance to win is not.

[johnny pinwheel]

I really dont understand some of these posts??? Ive read through alot and all I see is people saying the crop sucks. In february? I bet there are some horses out there (at least 5 or 6 ) that havent even run a race yet that will make it to the derby. Few years ago I had no idea who Barbaro was until he won the derby. Then there was Bernardini after that. Theres always a huge scramble to get the graded money under these horses belts early to get to the Derby, most horses arent ready. Then the big guns start to emerge. With Pyro and War Pass heading the trail I see an exciting campaign to the derby this year.i agree. these trainers sit on horses now. the "baby your horse" angle is played all over the place. frankly i think no conclusions can be made yet. the crop with Barbaro and Bernardini stunk. after Barbaros tragedy Bernardini won the travers and other races by default, thats why Invasor handed his a$$ to him in the BC. john wards travers starter that year raced in a non winners of 2 a couple weeks ago at GP and was up the track. i would wait a few months before passing judgement. with the fact that these horses retire after 3 doesn't help. the potential is never reached and the older division is usually weak . when they move up to the BC classic theres not much to compare too. they got to make horse racing about winning not breeding. these rich owners back in the day used to run for pride and bragging rights, not whos going to write the biggest check in november.