Z Humor in the Fountain of Youth

[justindew]

We didn't already know this, did we?

I'm a tad surprised.

[Coach Pants]

Thought he was Rebel bound.


Good. Let the Denis of Dork wave keep rising to tsunami status.

[cakes44]

Mott is going the Dutrow route with this one I guess.

[blackthroatedwind]

I'm sure Zayat is making him run. Mott would never do something this foolish. I won't be surprised when he scratches.

Though, maybe Mott's good friend BBB can get the real scoop.

[SniperSB23]

It is especially baffling since the horse already has the earnings to get in the Derby field. If they wanted to do something stupid with him they could just take the Turf War route and send him to the Borderland Derby where no real Derby contenders will be and go straight to the Derby from there.

[blackthroatedwind]

It feels like Mr. Zayat wants to be represented in all big races. That will work well for him over time.

[asudevil]

I'm sure Zayat is making him run. Mott would never do something this foolish. I won't be surprised when he scratches.

Though, maybe Mott's good friend BBB can get the real scoop.

A week apart??

[Diver52]

Remember James McIngvale (Mattress Mac) who used to have horses with Baffert (and a lot of other trainers)? He used to want to call the shots--I think he once ran During in a sprint because he saw him win it "in a dream." Usually it just isn't smart for owners to get too proactive.

[Scurlogue Champ]

He'll be fine.

8 days rest is plenty.

[lemoncrush]

He may be OK to run physically, but on paper this is easily the deepest and toughest field for a derby prep so far. Not sure why he would be so adament in running against this 12-horse field.

[Kasept]

Also note that Anxious Ahmed is shoving Halo Jajib into this as well after Romans made it clear he was looking to the Lne's End after the OBS win 13 days ago...

[Cajungator26]

Also note that Anxious Ahmed is shoving Halo Jajib into this as well after Romans made it clear he was looking to the Lne's End after the OBS win 13 days ago...

Actually like that one a bit, but I think he might be in over his head here. This is a pretty nice field.

[VOL JACK]

These are type of guys that are used to having anything and everything they want, at the snap of their fingers. Then when they get in a game that requires the patience of Job they lose their minds.

You would never see Bob Lewis making these kind of stupid decisions.
You hire the best trainers and get out of thier way.

[Coach Pants]

He'll be fine.

8 days rest is plenty.
They'd have a stroke if they kept up with Australian racing.

[dylbert]

Z Humor is strategic move. In the money finish keeps another horse from gaining graded earnings. He may not win but could easily run in top 4 spots. Also, running back on less rest is very old school. I agree with earlier post here -- let's see if he actually gets in starting gate.

[hoovesupsideyourhead]

no shot ..........

[asudevil]

no shot ..........
There is no way Billy will do it.....no way!!!

[cmorioles]

He'll be fine.

8 days rest is plenty.

I agree with this for horses coming of good efforts. Normally, the sooner they run back, the better. I don't see it off of that performance.

[SundayStar]

well,he only ran a half mile in that last race so at least he shouldn't be tired :confused:

[freddymo]

well,he only ran a half mile in that last race so at least he shouldn't be tired :confused:

The colt was completely spent BEFORE he ever ran a step in the race.

[SniperSB23]

Z Humor is strategic move. In the money finish keeps another horse from gaining graded earnings. He may not win but could easily run in top 4 spots. Also, running back on less rest is very old school. I agree with earlier post here -- let's see if he actually gets in starting gate.

You are right. They should run War Pass in every race along the way so he can prevent other horses from getting graded earnings and then only the top 20 in graded earnings will get in instead of the top 20 in graded earnings.

[freddymo]

You are right. They should run War Pass in every race along the way so he can prevent other horses from getting graded earnings and then only the top 20 in graded earnings will get in instead of the top 20 in graded earnings.
Yeah his post was a bit far fetched..perhaps saphire driven

[ALostTexan]

Maybe Zayat should get into harness racing. Then he could run all of his horses every week or two. He is probably not too big to even drive them himself...

[Coach Pants]

Yeah his post was a bit far fetched..perhaps saphire driven
It seemed a little topaz driven to me.

[freddymo]

It seemed a little topaz driven to me.

What a gem of a post!

[brianwspencer]

then only the top 20 in graded earnings will get in instead of the top 20 in graded earnings.

I laughed.

[dylbert]

8 EIGHTH RACE STAKES
The 62nd Running of The Fountain of Youth Stakes
$350,000 Guaranteed Grade II
FOR THREE YEAR OLDS. By subscription of $350 each by Sunday February 10,2008 which shall accompany the nomination, $3,500 to pass the entry box and $3,500 additional to start, with $350,000 Guaranteed. The owner of the winner to receive $210,000, $70,000 to second, $35,000 to third, $15,000 to fourth,$10,500 to fifth and $7,000 to sixth. Supplemental nominations may be made on Thursday, February 21, 2008, at a fee of $9,000, which includes entry and starting fees. Weight: 122 lbs. Non-winners of $75,000 twice at a mile or over, allowed, 2 lbs.; $75,000 once at any distance or $50,000 at a mile or over, 4 lbs.; $40,000 at any distance or $24,000 twice at a mile or over, 6 lbs. Starters to named through the entry box on Thursday February 21,2008 by the usual time of closing. Horses finishing first, second or third in the Fountain of Youth Stakes will automatically be nominated to the Florida Derby. Trophy to winning Owner. This race will be limited to 14 Starters, with Also Eligible. (High Weights Preferred). (Total lifetime earnings will be used according to equibase to determine the order of preference of horses with equal weight). All fees shall be paid prior to the start of the race.
Nominations Close Sunday, February 10, 2008
ONE MILE AND ONE EIGHTH

1. Finish first, second, or third receive nomination to Florida Derby -- this could block another horse or horses from entry in Florida Derby and potential graded earnings if horse with top 20 earnings finish in top 3 positions.
2. Race limited to 14 starters with preference to Total lifetime earnings -- again, block horse (or horses) from gaining graded earnings. If you are not in the race, you can't earn!
3. Cause trainer (or trainers) to move horse (or horses) to other venues where they are not familiar and may not succeed.

These are plausible actions by big money owners and trainers to ensure that their horses -- a) do make Kentucky Derby starting gate and b) that late bloomers can't accumulate sufficient earnings to supplant lesser horses. Yes, top 20 graded earners are ELIGIBLE to start. Who final 20 are is what is being sorted out as first Saturday in May approaches.

[SniperSB23]

1. Finish first, second, or third receive nomination to Florida Derby -- this could block another horse or horses from entry in Florida Derby and potential graded earnings if horse with top 20 earnings finish in top 3 positions.


If anyone wants to get in the Florida Derby they will pay the nomination fee to get in even if they don't qualify because they <giggle> lost to Z Humor in the Fountain of Youth.


2. Race limited to 14 starters with preference to Total lifetime earnings -- again, block horse (or horses) from gaining graded earnings. If you are not in the race, you can't earn!


Sure is a good thing that Z Humor was the 12th horse in a race restricted to 14 starters. Good thing he was able to block all those other horses that wanted to get in.


3. Cause trainer (or trainers) to move horse (or horses) to other venues where they are not familiar and may not succeed.


Who is moving a horse somewhere else because of the inclusion of Z Humor in the field? No one even knew he was going to be in the field to move somewhere else until entries came out.

These are plausible actions by big money owners and trainers to ensure that their horses -- a) do make Kentucky Derby starting gate

Z Humor could rest from now until the Derby and have a spot in the starting gate if they want to run him there.

These are plausible actions by big money owners and trainers to ensure that their horses and b) that late bloomers can't accumulate sufficient earnings to supplant lesser horses. Yes, top 20 graded earners are ELIGIBLE to start. Who final 20 are is what is being sorted out as first Saturday in May approaches.

The late bloomers will have to prove themselves in the final preps where everyone will be trying to "block" them if they want to get in. Late bloomers aren't a worry in February.



Note to self - find something better to do next Friday night than respond to posts like this.

[SniperSB23]

How could Z Humor's effort be described as bad in the Sam Davis at Tampa? This horse never lifted a foot on that track at Tampa, and there is no way that Mott runs this guy back for the Tampa Derby. Tampa is a funny track and some really love it or don't at all. He expended no energy last week and ran slower then he would run in a listed workout. Mott makes the right decision running him back at GP and this horse has the speed to be right there at the end. I hope they run cause his odds will be inflated off his last debacle at TBD. Here's hoping this derby prep produces some interesting options for races to come.

You are right, atrocious is probably a better word.

[blackthroatedwind]

How could Z Humor's effort be described as bad in the Sam Davis at Tampa? This horse never lifted a foot on that track at Tampa, and there is no way that Mott runs this guy back for the Tampa Derby. Tampa is a funny track and some really love it or don't at all. He expended no energy last week and ran slower then he would run in a listed workout. Mott makes the right decision running him back at GP and this horse has the speed to be right there at the end. I hope they run cause his odds will be inflated off his last debacle at TBD. Here's hoping this derby prep produces some interesting options for races to come.


He was fighting hard on the pace the entire way and led as the field turned for home. How can this possibly be construed as " never lifting a hoof? "

As for the second highlighted part.....if you don't think the owner of Z Humor forced Mott to enter the horse then I have a number of bridges I would like to sell you.

[SniperSB23]

If I imply that it was Mott's decision then that IS probably wrong, but why not run back in this race if the intentions are not to run back in the Tampa Derby? I believe the plans were scraped when Z Humor didn't run well at TBD, and Zayat said screw it and altered plans. This certainly does not have to be the case but I would bet that he's in the starting gate on Sunday for the Fountain of Youth. Cornelio has a good starting position with post #5, and his speed plays nicely for these 1 1/8 races at GP. I certainly don't know if he's the goods, but im willing to take the price for what he will be on Sunday.

Why not? Because bringing back a horse that tires badly on the lead in one week unplanned is just begging for an injury not to mention another poor performance. The horse has the earnings to get in the Derby if that is the goal. There are countless other spots they could send him besides the Tampa Bay Derby. There is absolutely no way that Mott wants to run him here.

[Danzig]

didn't mott just get some former baffert horses from zayat?
trainers don't become top trainers by telling owners with huge pocketbooks to 'f off'. i doubt that mott is concerned that running back in a week will be a health issue for the horse.
now as to whether it'll be an embarrassment issue is another story. it's no skin off motts nose if z humor runs a clunker-and it wasn't HIS idea to run, but the owners.

[3kings]

I agree there are other spots to run him. Most notably would be the derby preps at Oaklawn like the Rebel and then Arkansas Derby, but the FOY came up in his own backyard and you don't have to ship out of state. You certainly will never persuade me that this horse is worse for the wear by running this weekend by what transpired last weekend. Mott has lost clients before when he told clients to F off- he doesn't need the money that badly- he got a ton from Paulson when Cigar was retired and also fringe breeding rights to Theatrical. Shakespeare was a horse that Mott trained that bowed who had tremendous potential and accomplished some great things but he lost the horse and KM got him only to break down a few races later. Ahmad Zayat is not the only owner in this game ya know?
I think you are missing the point that he has enough earnings to get into the derby. He does not have to ship to run in a prep race, he can run in any allowance race on the grounds to stay fit.

[PPerfectfan]

The colt was completely spent BEFORE he ever ran a step in the race.

Exactly, by all accounts, he was a total total mess before. Washed out, dripping wet, as he was even comming over to the paddock and only got worse in the paddock. I am willing to forgive him for that race. That being said, I dont know if he is a good enough horse anyway. I really liked him in the Juvy and he dissapointed me.

[asudevil]

I agree there are other spots to run him. Most notably would be the derby preps at Oaklawn like the Rebel and then Arkansas Derby, but the FOY came up in his own backyard and you don't have to ship out of state. You certainly will never persuade me that this horse is worse for the wear by running this weekend by what transpired last weekend. Mott has lost clients before when he told clients to F off- he doesn't need the money that badly- he got a ton from Paulson when Cigar was retired and also fringe breeding rights to Theatrical. Shakespeare was a horse that Mott trained that bowed who had tremendous potential and accomplished some great things but he lost the horse and KM got him only to break down a few races later. Ahmad Zayat is not the only owner in this game ya know?
No Zayat isn't the only owner but Bill won't tell him to F-off for this reason:

Zayat has approx 40 horses with Mott (about 25% of his whole stable)....At a volume discount of 80 bucks a day training fees that's $96,000/month coming in or close 1.2 million a year.

Bill has a large payroll with staff in NY, FL, and KY.

Cigar hasn't raced in almost a dozen years and the Theatrical money is ancillary.

So I respectfully disagree that Bill would send Ahmad packing with the economics described above.

[Travis Stone]

Has the horse scratched yet? It's odd more hasn't been authored about him in the presses, as if they know its coming.

[blackthroatedwind]

Has the horse scratched yet? It's odd more hasn't been authored about him in the presses, as if they know its coming.


I would guess that more isn't in the press because, first of all, well you know, but mostly because Mott will take the heat as that's his job. That's what trainers have to do. He's never going to say " we're only running because the owner is making me against my wishes. "

[Travis Stone]

I would guess that more isn't in the press because, first of all, well you know, but mostly because Mott will take the heat as that's his job. That's what trainers have to do. He's never going to say " we're only running because the owner is making me against my wishes. "

Absolutely. I'm 110% speculating on this one. The whole situation is crazy really. I might eat crow on this, but to me this is like "How not to win the Derby 101."

[blackthroatedwind]

I have to respectfully disagree that Bill DOES NOT have a large payroll to pay for staff in KY. Where have you been man? Mott hasn't run shhhit in KY for almost ten years, and most if not all the stock running in KY is strictly second tier horses'. His best have been running almost strictly in NY and FL.


Just because they are second tier horses doesn't mean he doesn't have a pretty serious payroll. Or, perhaps you think people only get paid if the horses are top quality.

[blackthroatedwind]

No he doesn't have a serious payroll compared to what he pays at FL and NY tracks. The number of horses' stabled at CD pales in comparison to what he has at NY in that same time of year. His operation is very small in KY compared to elsewhere, and he mostly keeps horses' in KY to keep up with appearances.


OK, fine, and the person you chose to argue with said he had a large payroll with staff in FL, KY and NY. He didn't say a large payroll in NY....a large payroll in FL.....and a large payroll in KY. He was simply pointing out his enormous overhead, a fact, and the nature of doing business. Frankly, I think he has a better handle on the overall situation involving trainers and owners than you seem to realize.

[blackthroatedwind]

Ok Andy, tell me what you really think. I can't have a opinion on something without you having to correct me. If you can make it a FACT that the horses' and payroll he has in KY is more then NY you are right and i'm wrong. But we both know that you never admit to being wrong. Just because you are on some radio show and know Nick Zito does not make you a expert on everything bud!!! I'm simply stating fact that Mott has a lot fewer horses' in KY and his payroll is not nearly as expensive compared with NY.


This is so sad but I will mark it down to yet another poster posting under the influence.

Here's an idea.......improve your reading comprehension before you take any more idiotic cheap shots at me.

[Danzig]

"Bill has a large payroll with staff in NY, FL, and KY."


how does that sentence suddenly mean that mott has a large staff in ky?


he has a large payroll WITH staff IN ny, fl, and ky.

[ELA]

Wow -- what an interesting arguement -- grammer. LOL.

I can't believe what some people argue about.

Races, scratches, whatever. Sure, the strategic discussion is great. The real "what went on behind the scenes" is a hypothetical discussion here in this forum (unless something obvious and extreme happens, god forbid, ie: the horse dies, breaks down, etc.).

Eric

[Danzig]

Wow -- what an interesting arguement -- grammer. LOL.

I can't believe what some people argue about.

Races, scratches, whatever. Sure, the strategic discussion is great. The real "what went on behind the scenes" is a hypothetical discussion here in this forum (unless something obvious and extreme happens, god forbid, ie: the horse dies, breaks down, etc.).

Eric

not an issue with grammar at all...but the issue is that someone types, someone else reads, and then goes off the deep end when they see something that just wasn't there at all.

[miraja2]

Wow -- what an interesting arguement -- grammer. LOL.

I can't believe what some people argue about.
It seems like spelling would interest you even less.

[Cajungator26]

cHiLl OuT eVeRyOnE.

:D

[miraja2]

cHiLl OuT eVeRyOnE.

:D
Go to hell.
I hate everyone.

[ELA]

It seems like spelling would interest you even less.

It does interested me less, certainly less than this thread, LOL. Danzig, I absolutely agree with you. The deep end just seems to be getting closer and closer. LOL.

Eric

[Coach Pants]

Maybe you were thinking about Kelsey Grammer?

[ELA]

No Zayat isn't the only owner but Bill won't tell him to F-off for this reason:

Zayat has approx 40 horses with Mott (about 25% of his whole stable)....At a volume discount of 80 bucks a day training fees that's $96,000/month coming in or close 1.2 million a year.

Bill has a large payroll with staff in NY, FL, and KY.

Cigar hasn't raced in almost a dozen years and the Theatrical money is ancillary.

So I respectfully disagree that Bill would send Ahmad packing with the economics described above.

Is that what Mott gets now -- $80 a day with the volume discount? How many do you have to have in the barn to get the volume discount?

Anyway, that's really big money. I wonder how much Mott is making on the $80 a day.

Eric

[asudevil]

I have to respectfully disagree that Bill DOES NOT have a large payroll to pay for staff in KY. Where have you been man? Mott hasn't run shhhit in KY for almost ten years, and most if not all the stock running in KY is strictly second tier horses'. His best have been running almost strictly in NY and FL.
Wrong Sir/Madam...Wrong!!

Mott has at least 20 Claiborne horses in KY alone.....He uses KY as a midwest base and ships in and out of there to Arlington, Fairgrounds, Keeneland, and Turfway.....Please don't try to come on the board with opinions that you misrepresent as facts.

[asudevil]

Is that what Mott gets now -- $80 a day with the volume discount? How many do you have to have in the barn to get the volume discount?

Anyway, that's really big money. I wonder how much Mott is making on the $80 a day.

Eric
He's a 115/day if you have under 10 horses.

[Cannon Shell]

Wrong Sir/Madam...Wrong!!

Mott has at least 20 Claiborne horses in KY alone.....He uses KY as a midwest base and ships in and out of there to Arlington, Fairgrounds, Keeneland, and Turfway.....Please don't try to come on the board with opinions that you misrepresent as facts.
I dont think Mott trains for Claiborne anymore

[SniperSB23]

He ran 4th, not bad all things considered.