This has trouble written all over it

[pweizer]

The USA Today is reporting that Saturday's Preakness telecast will begin "with a panel discussion on the filly's catastrophic breakdown and other controversies surrounding Thoroughbred horse racing, says producer Sam Flood. Among the guests: Churchill Downs veterinarian Larry Bramlage; Eight Belles trainer Larry Jones; NBC analyst Gary Stevens; and New York Times columnist William Rhoden, who blasted the sport of kings as "only a couple of steps removed from animal fighting."

(http://www.usatoday.com/sports/columnist/mccarthy/2008-05-13-McCarthy_N.htm).

This doesn't sound to me as though anything good can come from this. Further, it means less coverage of the live action. I can hardly wait...

Paul

[sumitas]

with your closed mind nothing good of it can come for you. for horses and our sport i hope it will lead to something good and humane.

[Alan07]

ESPN will still have a 1/2 hour of live racing at 4:30 PM, which is also post of the Dixie Stakes

[pgiaco]

Dr. Bramlage and Larry Jones will be very prepared and I hope will give an eloquent defense of the game in the face of the blathering extremists. Rhoden is an idiot and I hope he is proven the fraud he is. Might not be the worst thing in the world.

[Scav]

Pot meet kettle.

Hopefully Kettle smokes pot upside the head

[GBBob]

with your closed mind nothing good of it can come for you. for horses and our sport i hope it will lead to something good and humane.

This is like discussing the Middle East on Meet the Press...what good can possibly come from it, no matter what your personal thoughts are on this?

[Scav]

Might not be the worst thing in the world.

Exactly, if anything, that panel looks sided towards horse racing. This other guy could get blasted when he starts getting out of control

[tiggerv]

with your closed mind nothing good of it can come for you. for horses and our sport i hope it will lead to something good and humane.

Which synthetic track company do you work for?

[letswastemoney]

Discussion is a good thing

[GBBob]

Dr. Bramlage and Larry Jones will be very prepared and I hope will give an eloquent defense of the game in the face of the blathering extremists. Rhoden is an idiot and I hope he is proven the fraud he is. Might not be the worst thing in the world.

Hopefully better than he was on The Today Show....didn't think that was strong, although he's a trainer, not a professional PR guy

[blackthroatedwind]

Dr. Bramlage and Larry Jones will be very prepared and I hope will give an eloquent defense of the game in the face of the blathering extremists. Rhoden is an idiot and I hope he is proven the fraud he is. Might not be the worst thing in the world.


Thank you. I agree completely.

Bramlage will crush him like a grape.

[hoovesupsideyourhead]

Pot meet kettle.
OOOOOO!

[justindew]

Without getting into the players involved, is the Live NBC Preakness telecast the best place for this kind of thing? It might be viewed as too self-serving, and perhaps won't be taken seriously.

Just a thought.

[sumitas]

when people are lead out in handcuffs for horse abuse and spend hard time in jail like Michael Vick this game will know time is up...the abusers and those that allow the abuse are on borrowed time. those committing fraud on the buying and betting public as well...so i advise anyone to do the right thing. God is always watching and the "world" will be watching Saturday. Shame on the abusers. Shame on those that condone it.

[Better Than Honour]

William Rhoden is just the Jerry Springer of the NY Times. He will say anything to get attention because he is a terrible writer that nobody wants to hear from.

[Coach Pants]

I'm worried about Gary Stevens reacting to questions in real time.


Please don't tell me he's the mediator in all of this. Please God and baby Jesus no.

[Coach Pants]

when people are lead out in handcuffs for horse abuse and spend hard time in jail like Michael Vick this game will know time is up...the abusers and those that allow the abuse are on borrowed time. those committing fraud on the buying and betting public as well...so i advise anyone to do the right thing. God is always watching and the "world" will be watching Saturday. Shame on the abusers. Shame on those that condone it.
You're more likely to be led out in a muzzle and have your hands chopped off for being a horrendous poster before that will happen.

[Better Than Honour]

They should let Millie Ball do it. The looks and the accent soften the image of racing.

[Cannon Shell]

William Rhoden is just the Jerry Springer of the NY Times. He will say anything to get attention because he is a terrible writer that nobody wants to hear from.
Now that Isiah is gone he has nothing else to do except knock a sport that he pays zero attention to. Will probably play the race card and say we dont care about the horses much because they have brown skin. I wont read the NY Times except in rare occasions but the times i've seen him on the Sports Reporters he usually comes off as a moron but I guess most of the guys on that show do.

[blackthroatedwind]

when people are lead out in handcuffs for horse abuse and spend hard time in jail like Michael Vick this game will know time is up...the abusers and those that allow the abuse are on borrowed time. those committing fraud on the buying and betting public as well...so i advise anyone to do the right thing. God is always watching and the "world" will be watching Saturday. Shame on the abusers. Shame on those that condone it.


If God is watching, I wonder who he likes to fill out the super.

[fpsoxfan]

when people are lead out in handcuffs for horse abuse and spend hard time in jail like Michael Vick this game will know time is up...the abusers and those that allow the abuse are on borrowed time. those committing fraud on the buying and betting public as well...so i advise anyone to do the right thing. God is always watching and the "world" will be watching Saturday. Shame on the abusers. Shame on those that condone it.

Oh my goodness.

[Danzig]

when people are lead out in handcuffs for horse abuse and spend hard time in jail like Michael Vick this game will know time is up...the abusers and those that allow the abuse are on borrowed time. those committing fraud on the buying and betting public as well...so i advise anyone to do the right thing. God is always watching and the "world" will be watching Saturday. Shame on the abusers. Shame on those that condone it.

well, that's all well and good, but what has any of that to do with eight belles?

[sumitas]

If God is watching, I wonder who he likes to fill out the super.

In my heart He has a fav. But the Devil is in control of this game and it must be wrested away from his followers. There are great people in this game , that together, can do this. The sport will be so much better off for it. Real opportunity for all exists in a clean game.

g nite

[Coach Pants]

pass the collection plate, sir.

[3kings]

Anyone else growing tired of being preached to?
I agree Hoss. Every thread, no matter the topic, ends with some ridiculous holier than though poly or drug rant. Its tiresome at best and borders on insanity.

[ateamstupid]

I agree Hoss. Every thread, no matter the topic, ends with some ridiculous holier than though poly or drug rant. Its tiresome at best and borders on insanity.

It's getting crazier and crazier by the post too.

[Danzig]

Anyone else growing tired of being preached to?

yeah, but i'm guilt free sleeping in on sundays.

[MaTH716]

Personally I think that this a terrible idea. Racing only makes it on to national TV a handful of times a year. Now on one of these days you are going to have a panel discussion on everything wrong and bad in the sport. They should be showing live races and promoting the game, the races, horses and people involved to the audience and any new possible fan base that is watching. Try to sell the sport and get people to the track, instead of scaring them away with talk of breakdowns, drugs and synthetic surfaces. I have nothing against a forum of things that need to be fixed in the game(there are real issues), but I do not think that this is the time or the place for it.

[pick4]

The Eight Belles breakdown was horrible and NBC should spend a few moments addressing the issue. Even though breakdowns happen in racing and it is a part of racing finding the definitive answer to why they occur is impossible. They could blame the dirt surface but breakdowns happen on grass too. Look back at the last few Opening Day 1st races at the Spa.

Hopefully Dr. Bramledge and Larry Jones will articulate a sensible response to William Rhoden's uneducated rant about how horrible horse racing is.

[Cajungator26]

In my heart He has a fav. But the Devil is in control of this game and it must be wrested away from his followers. There are great people in this game , that together, can do this. The sport will be so much better off for it. Real opportunity for all exists in a clean game.

g nite

I would think that everyone on here wants a clean game, but what does that have to do with Eight Belles?

[Danzig]

The Eight Belles breakdown was horrible and NBC should spend a few moments addressing the issue. Even though breakdowns happen in racing and it is a part of racing finding the definitive answer to why they occur is impossible. They could blame the dirt surface but breakdowns happen on grass too. Look back at the last few Opening Day 1st races at the Spa.

Hopefully Dr. Bramledge and Larry Jones will articulate a sensible response to William Rhoden's uneducated rant about how horrible horse racing is.

perhaps they could take a moment to remind everyone that his race has been run every year since it's inception in 1875 (133 runnings) with only one fatality ever in the field, eight belles.

[hockey2315]

perhaps they could take a moment to remind everyone that his race has been run every year since it's inception in 1875 (133 runnings) with only one fatality ever in the field, eight belles.

But isn't that sort of the point? Horses are getting more fragile, drugs are corrupting the sport, etc. . .

[zippyneedsawin]

Why is William Rhoden's uninformed opinion part of this panel anyway? Just because he wrote a column?

[zippyneedsawin]

If God is watching, I wonder who he likes to fill out the super.

I think God plays pick 6's more..

[Rupert Pupkin]

Racing is broken and it needs to be fixed. As of right now, racing is dying a slow death. Tracks are closing down all over the country. Hollywood Park may be next. There are serious problems in racing and they need to be addressed.

The bettors and the fans are well aware of the problems. The problems are not going to go away until they are fixed. You can't just sweep them under the rug.

You guys have the whole thing backwards. You guys seem to think that if they just shut up about Eight Belles, then everything will be fine. Nothing could be further from the truth. It's just the opposite. If we just shut up and don't make any changes, we will continue to see Eight Belles type incidents and racing will continue to go downhill.

Instead we should seize the moment, and use the Eight Belles incident as a wake-up call to finally start making some of the changes that need to be made.

Having discussions on television is a huge positive, not a negative.

[zippyneedsawin]

Racing is broken and it needs to be fixed. As of right now, racing is dying a slow death. Tracks are closing down all over the country. Hollywood Park may be next. There are serious problems in racing and they need to be addressed.

The bettors and the fans are well aware of the problems. The problems are not going to go away until they are fixed. You can't just sweep them under the rug.

You guys have the whole thing backwards. You guys seem to think that if they just shut up about Eight Belles, then everything will be fine. Nothing could be further from the truth. It's just the opposite. If we just shut up and don't make any changes, we will continue to see Eight Belles type incidents and racing will continue to go downhill.

Instead we should seize the moment, and use the Eight Belles incident as a wake-up call to finally start making some of the changes that need to be made.

Having discussions on television is a huge positive, not a negative.


You're missing the point, IMO. It's WHO is speaking, not that the discussions are going on. I can't speak for everyone else, but I welcome open discusions about horse racing, its issues and what can be done to make improvements. But when uninformed people get a forum to voice an opinion, it does no good.
NBC should have chosen someone more aware of horse racing issues for this panel than Mr. Rhoden. Who's going to take him seriously?

[pgiaco]

You're missing the point, IMO. It's WHO is speaking, not that the discussions are going on. I can't speak for everyone else, but I welcome open discusions about horse racing, its issues and what can be done to make improvements. But when uninformed people get a forum to voice an opinion, it does no good.
NBC should have chosen someone more aware of horse racing issues for this panel than Mr. Rhoden. Who's going to take him seriously?

Exactly, informed discussion is one thing. Ranting without any knowledge of the subject doesn't do an ounce of good.

[Danzig]

i just don't understand why eight belles has now become the poster child for horse racing abuse. what about horses in barns with a trainer who cuts the leg off a dead horse? now maybe that guy should be investigated! if there are abuses, you find the ones doing so. if there are problems, fix them. but peta isn't interested in making the sport better, they're interested in not having the sport at all.

[Rupert Pupkin]

Who are you guys? And who is advocating just shutting up and forgetting? I haven't seen anyone here take the stance to just forget it. Almost across the board people here and other boards that I have seen are in agreement that things need to be done.

What I have seen is backlash to knee jerk reactions and a resentment of media types that speak negatively about the sport, yet have no idea about what they are talking about. I agree the discussion is positive and horse racing is being well represented. I'm just not sure if the right time is before the Preakness although I understand why they are doing it then.

The headline of this thread is "This Has Trouble Written All Over It". How could a discussion that involves Dr. Larry Bramlage, Larry Jones, Gary Stevens, and William Rhoden have trouble written all over it? I think it would be much more troubling if they didn't talk about Eight Belles or if they just briefly mentioned the incident. It's much better for them to spend plenty of time on the subject and talk about some of the things that can be done to lessen the chances of something like this happening again. I don't know anything about William Rhoden, but I certainly think that Bramlage, Jones, and Stevens are qualified to give their opinions.

[Danzig]

But isn't that sort of the point? Horses are getting more fragile, drugs are corrupting the sport, etc. . .

by the same token, vet care and testing is much better. you can always revisit the old days, and see it wasn't the 'good' old days. horses used to run hopped up on cocaine. a fracture back then was found when the horse broke down-no scans like what they've got today.

thing is, we bitch and moan about lack of racing over the span of a horses career, and them retiring at three before they get good. but go back and scan the old, really good horses' records. man o war ran 21 times, , but retired at three-just like secretariat and count fleet, who was sandwiched between the two eras. seattle slew, 17 races over three years-altho i can't imagine another tc winner running at four. it took four years for war admiral to rack up 26 starts, the most he ran in one year was 11-8 as a three year old, which is comparable to some of todays horses. assault averaged seven races per year....

[Kasept]

if there are problems, fix them. but peta isn't interested in making the sport better, they're interested in not having the sport at all.
Make NO mistake... Their agenda isn't the abolition of the sport.. Their agenda is SOLELY to use it as a flashpoint to raise money. They couldn't care less about the fate of horses. They don't really care about animals AT ALL. If they did, they would use their organization to help fund the care of abused and neglected animals... BUT THEY DON'T.

In fact, as I said the other day on the show, THEY ARE ROOTING FOR INJURIES TO HORSES TO FURTHER THEIR FINANCIAL GOALS.. They are the depraved parties in this equation.

[Danzig]

yeah, you're probably right. a lot of these causes exist solely to make money for those in charge. if there are no more problems, there would be no more need for peta.

[Rupert Pupkin]

I think you guys are making way too big of a deal about PETA. I don't think people make their decisions about whether something is cruel based on what PETA says. Millions of people saw that horse break down. I think people are going to make up their own minds about the incident and about whether horseracing is cruel or not. I don't think there are many people out there who saw the incident and thought one thing, but changed their minds when they heard PETA's opinion.

[Danzig]

you'd be surprised rupert. some people have to get their opinion from elsewhere, as it would be too much trouble to form their own after reasonable inquiry and debate.
plenty of lemmings who will use petas talking points to rail against this cruel sport, but they really don't know the sport, just that peta said it's 'bad'. oh, and please send money, join the fight...

[Rupert Pupkin]

Make NO mistake... Their agenda isn't the abolition of the sport.. Their agenda is SOLELY to use it as a flashpoint to raise money. They couldn't care less about the fate of horses. They don't really care about animals AT ALL. If they did, they would use their organization to help fund the care of abused and neglected animals... BUT THEY DON'T.

In fact, as I said the other day on the show, THEY ARE ROOTING FOR INJURIES TO HORSES TO FURTHER THEIR FINANCIAL GOALS.. They are the depraved parties in this equation.

I know there are charities out there that don't care about their cause but simply are about lining the pockets of the heads of the charity.

I'm certainly not an expert on PETA and I don't agree with everything they say and do. But I think that lady who is the head of PETA, I believe her name is Ingrid Newkirk, is legitimately extremely concerned with the welfare of animals. If you have any evidence to the contrary, I would love to hear it.

I don't understand why you're so focused on PETA. I'm in the horseracing business and I don't care what PETA says about horseracing. Some of what PETA says is true and some of it is not true. Regardless of what PETA says, I know we have a lot of problems in horseracing that need to be fixed. I don't need PETA to tell me that. I see it first-hand every day.

I'm certainly not mad at PETA. I can't blame them for speaking up, even if some of their crticism is off-base. There certainly is some truth to some of the things they say. Even BTW said, "There is at least a hint of truth in some of what they say."

As I said, I have no anger towards PETA. My anger is at the people in the industry who are dragging their feet and doing everything they can to make sure that nothing changes with medication.

[Payson Dave]

There is a saying to the effect of ... Be careful getting in to a war of words with someone with an endless supply of ink.
The guy from the Times has access to a huge audience and he does not necessarilly have the best interest of the game as his agenda.

[Kasept]

I know there are charities out there that don't care about their cause but simply are about lining the pockets of the heads of the charity.

I'm certainly not an expert on PETA and I don't agree with everything they say and do. But I think that lady who is the head of PETA, I believe her name is Ingrid Newkirk, is legitimately extremely concerned with the welfare of animals. If you have any evidence to the contrary, I would love to hear it.

I don't understand why you're so focused on PETA. I'm in the horseracing business and I don't care what PETA says about horseracing. Some of what PETA says is true and some of it is not true. Regardless of what PETA says, I know we have a lot of problems in horseracing that need to be fixed. I don't need PETA to tell me that. I see it first-hand every day.
I'm not focused on PETA at all. I've barely mentioned them by name on air in the two weeks since they started their nonsense. I was addressing Zig's point above.

But since you brought it up, the fact is that ignoring them specifically is a mistake. In every pro-industry comment in this arena, the point needs to be stressed that there are thousands upon thousands of dedicated racing-related individuals caring for horses daily and whose lives are devoted to ensuring a quality of life for horses on and away from the track.

The other point that you seem to not want to acknowledge at all is the reality that these dire problems you think have the game at death's door are being addressed left and right. What exactly do you think the RMTC is up to? The Welfare and Safety Summit? The ARCI and TRPB Wagering Protocol Working Group? The Grayson-JC Foundation people?

I'm getting really tired of those that love to pile on with the negativity and actively seek to diminish the authentic work being attempted by people like those above. Not everything is going to be 'fixed' in nanoseconds, but to act like nothing is being done AT ALL, BY ANYONE, is ridiculous and an insult to those trying.

[Danzig]

excellent points. it's not a head in the sand atmosphere at all.
and i would think most of us hardly give peta a thought, until they start beating the drum and they come to the fore on things like this. it's funny, but other than on here lately, i can't recall a conversation anywhere regarding peta.
i just don't think eight belles is indicative of what is wrong with this sport.

[Rupert Pupkin]

I'm not focused on PETA at all. I've barely mentioned them by name on air in the two weeks since they started their nonsense. I was addressing Zig's point above.

But since you brought it up, the fact is that ignoring them specifically is a mistake. In every pro-industry comment in this arena, the point needs to be stressed that there are thousands upon thousands of dedicated racing-related individuals caring for horses daily and whose lives are devoted to ensuring a quality of life for horses on and away from the track.

The other point that you seem to not want to acknowledge at all is the reality that these dire problems you think have the game at death's door are being addressed left and right. What exactly do you think the RMTC is up to? The Welfare and Safety Summit? The ARCI and TRPB Wagering Protocol Working Group? The Grayson-JC Foundation people?

I'm getting really tired of those that love to pile on with the negativity and actively seek to diminish the authentic work being attempted by people like those above. Not everything is going to be 'fixed' in nanoseconds, but to act like nothing is being done AT ALL, BY ANYONE, is ridiculous and an insult to those trying.

You are right. We are starting to see some changes. The ball is starting to roll. I guess I'm just impatient. I want to see things happen quickly because so much of this stuff is long overdue. The RMTC has certainly done some excellent work. I have been frustrated that so many in the industry have dragged their feet when it comes to implementing the recommendations of the RMTC.

[blackthroatedwind]

I'll take Rupert and lay the points in this thread.

[hoovesupsideyourhead]

In my heart He has a fav. But the Devil is in control of this game and it must be wrested away from his followers. There are great people in this game , that together, can do this. The sport will be so much better off for it. Real opportunity for all exists in a clean game.

g nite
hey andy got any coolaid....